Le 19.12.2012 16:25, Hugo Vanwoerkom a écrit :
Michael Biebl wrote:On 19.12.2012 01:04, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:Since the user session runs unprivileged, and pm-suspend/pm-hibernate need to run as root, you will need to go through a system service likeMichael Biebl wrote:This related to LXDE which I am trying out. The hibernate and suspend buttons do nothing in the logout menu. Googling says that LXDE uses pm-utils. So I was guessing that invoking pm-hibernate/suspend was involved, which I can do as root but not as user.On 19.12.2012 00:34, berenger.morel@neutralite.org wrote:sudo is one option, the other is to use upower (which runs as systemExcept using sudo, I know no solution... sadly.Maybe you can do something with policykit, too, I never tried to understand how it works, but I think giving rights to some softwares is its role.daemon with root privileges) and use a command like this $ dbus-send --print-reply \ --system \ --dest=org.freedesktop.UPower \ /org/freedesktop/UPower \ org.freedesktop.UPower.Suspendupower.I know nothing about LXDE, but e.g. in GNOME, the power manager simply sends the above dbus requests when you hit the suspend button or closethe lid. I would expect LXDE provides a similar user power management agent.Indeed. I found this: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PolicyKit#Suspend_and_hibernate Follow that and addgroup power and adduser to power and you can now hibernate and suspend. Hugo
A bit out of topic, but I wonder why there is no other solution than using dbus to let a user shutdown/hibernate/suspend his computer? This is not the only point where the problem apply: you have same troubles with network, and maybe on other things I did not experiment (to add softwares and/or modify system-wide configuration files, I think it is perfectly normal to need root, because no normal user does those actions everyday).
Of course, there are workarounds, with dbus, sudo...Of course, the way things are actually done is nice for enterprises, which need a high security level, at least for servers.
But, in my humble opinion, linux should not be reserved for enterprises, some people uses it at home, for pleasure (like me) and this over-security is counter-productive: I am switching to root quite often, for things as simple as asking to renew my IP address on a network, suspend my computer, changing wifi network I am using (if I am in a friend's home, at work, in a "cybercafe" (don't know english name, sorry)...). This results in having a quasi-permanent root console enabled on my system, which is not really safe (I enabled a special colored prompt to avoid doing mistakes there ;) ).
I could use the workarounds, yes, but I tend to prefer minimalist systems, and I do not really know where dbus is needed on my computer: my softwares usually do not need to communicate, except for copy/paste, but this is done through X11 AFAIK. As I prefer minimalist things (no true desktop environment, by example) I did not install policykit, because: _ I can do everything I need without it. Only "simple" things are more boring: power and network management in my situation _ I do not understand how it works (and because it is not needed and I have many other things more important to learn, I do not want to learn about it for now)
I can understand the interest, for enterprises, which is probably where linux is the most widely used, but is it only political reasons, or is there is a technical limitation? In the first situation, it could be interesting to provide a way for simple users to control their computers. I am seeing linux as a system for tinkerers and people who like to have choices. And on those things, there are no real choices: root or dbus. Even windows is able to shutdown a computer with a command made by basic user (shutdown IIRC).
The strange point is that you have physical access to switches allowing you to poweroff your computer (and network: for wifi, you often have a button, for wired you can unplug the cable), but you need special password to ask a new IP or shutdown correctly the computer? Well, to shutdown the computer, you can also switch to TTYs, and do CTRL+ALT+SUPPR to reboot. Then, use the button... Err... simple...
I remember some article about Linus Torvalds complaining about the over-security in distros, needing to use root account for most actions. I do not agree on all of his words, but on that point, I have to admit that for my usage, those points are simply boring. Of course, I know that it is needed for other people in various situations (poweroff on a distant computer with user access could be a big problem by example) but what I would like to know is, is there any technical reasons to avoid users to shutdown a computer, or use ifconfig, ifup and ifdown tools?
I do not say that the option of having things controlled by precise rights access have to be removed, it is very useful in some situations. But is there is more servers, or user computers? Should a way to use the computer be sacrificed for the sake of another?
I do not think so. But, maybe reasons are technical...