Re: Filing bug reports in Debian (was Re: Debian Stole My Name!)
On Sunday 12 October 2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
> Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > My original point is that I don't file bug reports with
> > FOSS because I've had some indifferent and even hostile replies.
> > As I've said, there are reasons that I usually file bug reports
> > under a legal alias and why I used to be on mailing lists using the
> > same aka. It's a long story, but it's not that I'm up to anything
> > shady. Overall, I used to file bug reports, back when I first
> > started working with FOSS, sometime in the late 1990s, but gave up
> > on it for the reasons I mentioned. That this particular one is
> > dated 2006 tells me it's one I filed when I had already given up,
> > for the most part, on filing them.
>
> Well, that pretty much summarizes the fact that you do not want to
> file bugs, and the reasons why. I (and other people, judging by the
> thread) think you should, but it is your right not to file any bugs
> if you don't feel inclined to do that by whatever reasons you have.
>
> That being explained, what exactly do you want to achieve with this
> thread?
I made the statement, as you summarized in your first paragraph. Since
then people have said, "But this is an example that disproves what you
say," or something similar. Since then I've been responding to back up
my point.
Notice that the response in the original report strayed far from the
original issue. My primary concern was never even addressed in the
responses, yet a lot of other stuff was. I gave up because I felt my
point was just not being heard and after 2 tries, it was clear to me
that we were stuck in a loop and my original point was not going to be
heard, no matter what I said or did.
So I made a point here. Some people have agreed. Not everyone, which
is to be expected, but the fact that some do shows that this has
happened often enough that there are people who have experienced it
multiple times and have given up on filing bug reports (on Debian
and/or other projects), even though devs ask for them. This is a
problem that creates problems for FOSS devs, so I pointed it out.
And, just like in the original bug report, we hit an endless loop. I've
responded over and over to try to break out of that loop, to try to
make the point: From one side, the one asking for bug reports, it's not
a problem. From the other side, it is.
Honestly, I am TRYING TO HELP! I am saying, "There's a problem," and
some people have said, "You have a valid point," but a lot of people,
especially ones on the "other side" of the issue, are so focused on
defending themselves or a fellow DD that they're talking about
everything but my original point or the original point in the bug
report.
It's the old debate trick: I can't win with the topic in question, but I
can justify what I say and win if I change the issue to one I want to
discuss. That way I can ignore the problem or issue and feel justified
that I was right all along.
Okay, I've described what I see going on.
So what am I trying to do? As I said, I'm trying to help. I'm trying
to say, "From your point of view, your justified, but there's another
point of view you don't see and from that point of view, there is a
problem. You can't see it from there, so let me show you." I'm hoping
it will make enough people think so in the future there won't be
someone like me who files bug reports, finds that in every one the
responder was either indifferent or hostile (I'm not saying Christian
was hostile, I would not use that word at all), and gives up.
I'm hoping enough devs will think about this and say, "Okay, I think
he's wrong, but on the off chance that he may be right, I'll be sure
and deal with future bug reports with attention to what the reporter is
trying to accomplish and focus on solving THAT problem, not just on
closing it out as quickly as possible."
That may or may not happen, but I do think that this thread has at least
given the issue more visibility and in that way I've done something
that could help and as long as I feel people are trying to justify
responses instead of focusing on the fact that this is an issue to
consider, I'll keep dealing with their points because I feel strongly
about this.
Hal
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