Re: [Totally OT] Re: Hmmm. A question. Was [Re: Debian is losing its users]
On Friday 04 April 2008, Michael C wrote:
> Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > On Friday 04 April 2008, Michael C wrote:
> >> Hal Vaughan wrote:
> >>> On Friday 04 April 2008, Michael C wrote:
> >>>> Ivan Savcic wrote:
> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 5:12 PM, Andrew Sackville-West
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <andrew@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> I have a problem with this. Debian, in it's default install is
> >>>>>> almost assuredly GNU free. And it has the additional freedom
> >>>>>> of allowing the user to choose to use non-free software within
> >>>>>> the structure of it's packaging system. IMO that is more free
> >>>>>> than preventing people from using the software they want.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I had exactly the same view on that. But RMS is obviously a
> >>>>> purist, he dreams to banish all closed source from this world.
> >>>>> Like Hal pointed out, RMS believes that there should be no
> >>>>> freedom when it comes to choosing freedom itself.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ivan
> >>>>
> >>>> RMS is more of a hypocrite than anything else. He morally
> >>>> objects to distros/*BSD variants with non-free applications in
> >>>> their repositories/ports systems, on the grounds that this
> >>>> implicitly advocates the use of non-free software, whilst
> >>>> explicitly advocating GPL-licensed software for use in
> >>>> conjunction with that ultimate proprietary platform, MS Windows:
> >>>> http://www.gnu.org/software/for-windows.html
> >>>
> >>> I think what RMS objects to is anything that was not his idea
> >>> first.
> >>>
> >>> Hal
> >>
> >> Honi soit qui mal y pense!
> >
> > Merde!
> >
> > Granted that's just my opinion, based on what I've read and less
> > than 2 1/2 hours at one of his talks (including some time talking
> > to him afterwards), so I could be way off base, but I did get the
> > sense that his world definitely starts and ends with his own views
> > -- and basically contains only his views.
> >
> >> The FSF's list curiously doesn't mention the GNU Foundation's
> >> support for the Win32 port of emacs and gcc:
> >> http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/ntemacs.html
> >
> > I admire RMS and a lot of what he's done. I'm currently working on
> > source for controlling an HD radio in C++ so I'm using gcc, based
> > on his earlier version and he did write emacs (isn't that an OS or
> > religion?). That doesn't mean that I think he carries things too
> > far.
> >
> > But then again, maybe it's that blindness and need of his to go too
> > far that has achieved what he has.
> >
> > Hal
>
> FWIW, I don't have any particular problem with the notion -- implicit
> in Stallman's position -- that there's a set of positive political
> freedoms which *morally* override the permissive freedom to install
> proprietary software.
I see the point, but don't agree completely with it. There are what I
consider sound reasons for closed source software and any person or
company can always elect to not use it.
> What concerns me is that Richard, in common with many people
> half-seduced by their followers' portrayal of themselves as a
> prophet/guru figure, has stopped listening to anyone outside of his
> coterie of sycophants.
I cannot disagree with that.
Hal
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