Re: [OT] The record industry, RIAA and US law

[Joe Hart <j.hart@orange.nl>]

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Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
> Celejar wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 May 2007 16:14:44 -0400
>> Amy Templeton <amy.g.templeton@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>> Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Johannes Wiedersich <johannes@physik.blm.tu-muenchen.de> wrote:
>>>>> The whole mission is a textbook example of how it probably is
>>>>> impossible to bring about democracy, peace and freedom by
>>>>> application of force.
>>>> Impossible? Where were Germany and Japan before and after WWII?
>>> Before: A lot more populous.
>>> After: In ruins.
>>>
>>> Seriously, though...are you advocating dropping nuclear bombs on
>>> people in order to force them to be "free"? 'Cause if I recall
>>> that's how we got Japan to lay down arms...
>> First, I was simply providing a counter example to Johannes'
>> aforementioned assertion, but not necessarily advocating anything.
>> Second, what about Germany? Third, WRT Japan I suppose we had three
>> choices: a) the Bomb b) continued conventional war c) negotiated
>> peace / truce / ceasefire. It's easy to argue for a over b
>> (minimization of the total loss of life, including total loss of enemy
>> life), although I know that one can argue the contrary also. WRT option
>> c, do you think that was a historically realistic possibility? [It's
>> not a rhetorical question; my knowledge of the period isn't that
>> strong.]
> 
> You forget about the second bomb. It was dropped before the Japanese
> government had a chance to figure out what had happened in Hiroshima and
> before they had a chance to surrender in face of the first bomb.
> 
> (The second bomb was dropped 3 days after the first. In the confusion
> and destruction caused by the first bombing it took days for the
> Japanese government to figure out what had happened in Hiroshima. No
> internet, no telephone, etc.)
> 
> No matter what justification one might have for dropping the first bomb,
> I guess at least the second bomb was both military and morally 'useless'.
> 
> Johannes
> 
> Further reading:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

My understanding of the period leads me to believe that the second bomb
was dropped as to prove to the Japanese that the first bomb was not a
fluke and the same type of bomb could be repeatedly dropped until they
surrendered.  While I agree that it came a bit too soon after the first
bomb, and some diplomatic efforts should have been attempted after the
first, lines of communication were poor then, and how many more Allied
lives would have been lost if the fighting continued?

The number of American lives were the only things that the US considered
worthwhile at the time.

Joe
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