Re: Debian's progress inspite of events (was Re: Dunk-Tank and the DD strike)
On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 21:06 -0300, D G Teed wrote:
> Win XP installer prompts "F6 to add hardware drivers" or some such.
> It makes the opportunity known. It isn't impossible for the Debian
> installer to do something to introduce the possibility as I mentioned
> before.
Debian has expert modes, preseeding and other neat features you claim it
doesn't.
> I wrote a Gentoo how-to for using netboot to clone disks on the sparc
> platform, rolling udpcast and dependancies into an installer image I
> made available. Don't assume too much. Netboot would be a bit of a
> hassle to accomplish in our environment, but it would be possible.
Oh, Gentoo...
> I don't think you get it. I like Debian.
So what, I like it.
> My manager doesn't think it is serious and that is the person who
> needs to see the light.
Show him the light... oh but you can't because he is just giving you lip
service. Get out now while you are still employed and can find another
job.
> He would never install Windows by netboot, so he doesn't think it is a
> standard installation method.
You realize netboot for Windows isn't even possible with a "system
imager"?
> It doesn't matter. Redhat and Suse are always doing backports of
> whatever drivers they want to inject in there. Even in 2.4 days they
> were taking stuff from 2.5.
Nope, so I guess you are volunteering to do all the work, for nothing
then? On your spare time?
> Well, lets see. One is a postgres database server with hardware raid
> 5 and 6 disks, while another example is a cyrus server with software
> raid. They have different partitioning scheme requirements, and inodes
> for thousands of email accounts will need to be higher than an average
> filesystem. For the time it takes to install the net based installer
> with base and pick out packages I want, I think I am further ahead
> with that approach than figuring out how to reinvent a truck into a
> beetle and such.
So, I guess it is a rip and re-install... JUST like Windows.
Also, if you'd use a Filesystem designed for many small files, you
wouldn't have to worry about it.
>
> Again, why do hyarge deployments choose Debian? Scalability
> and 19,000
> easily available packages. Also because of cost reductions,
> when they
> don't have the money to spend on "One Vendor Solutions" and
> rely on the
> employees they have to do the job. Finding out that these
> Vendors are
> just taking money.
>
> You don't have to convince me Debian is great. But anyway, Redhat has
> very cheap licensing for campuses, so money isn't really an issue.
Fine, then USE RedHat. But the Support Contracts aren't cheap.
>
>
> Debian's adoption is everywhere, for a list of Debian
> based distros
> here is non-comprehensive list I just used on Ben Hmeda:
>
> Admanix, APLINUX, ASLinux, AbulEdu, Formerly Demudi
> now ANGULA,
> ANTEMIUM Linux, Arrabix, Augustux, Backtrack, B2D
> Linux, BenHUr,
> BEERnix, Biadix, BIG LINUX, Bioknoppix, BlackRhino,
> BRLSpeak,
> Bonzai Linux, ClusterKnoppix, Catix, CensorNet,
> Clusterix,
> Condorux, Corel Linux, Danix, Demolinux, DebXPde,
> Dizinha Linux,
> Debian JP, Debian-BR-CDD, DeveLinux, Damn Small
> Linux(DSL), DCC,
> ESware Linux, eduKnoppix, ERPOSS, Evinux, Euronode,
> Engarde,
> emdebian, Ebuntu, FAMELIX, FeatherLinux, FoRK (Vital
> Data
> Forensic or Rescue Kit), Freeduc-cd, Freeduc-Sup,
> Finnix,
> Familiar, GEOLivre Linux, Gibraltar, GNIX-Vivo,
> Kinneret,
> GNUstep Live, grml, GuadaLinex, Gnoppix, Hiweed Linux,
> Helix,
> Hikarunix, IndLinux, Impi Linux, Julex, K-DeMar,
> Kaella,
> Knoppix Linux Azur, Kanotix, KlusTriX, knopILS,
> Knoppel,
> Knoppix64, KnoppixSTD, KNOPPIX, KnoppiXMAME,
> KNOSciences,
> Kurumin, Kalango Linux, Kunbuntu, KnoppMyth, LAMPPIX,
> LIIS
> Linux, Libranet, LinEspa, Linspire, Linux-YeS, Linux
> Live Game
> Project, Linux Loco, LinuxDefender Live! CD, Linux
> Router
> Project, LiVix, Local Area Security Linux ( L.A.S.),
> Luinux, Luit
> Linux, Linex, Linuxin, Libranet(though now part of
> Mandriva),
> MAX: Madrid Linux, MediainLinux, MEPIS,
> Metadistro-Pequelin,
> MIKO GNYO/Linux, MoLinux, Munjoy Linux, Morphix,
> MeNTOPPIX,
> Nature's Linux, NordisKnoppix, NepaLinux, NUbuntu,
> OpenGroupware.org Knoppix CD, OverclockIX, Oralux,
> PAIPIX,
> ParallelKnoppix, Parsix GNU/Linux, Penguin Sleuth
> Bootable CD,
> PHLAK, PilotLinux, PingOO, Progeny Linux, Prosa,
> Quantian, RAYS
> LX, Salvare, Santa Fe Linux, Slavix, Slix, Slo-Tech
> Linux,
> Soyombo Mongolian Linux, SphinxOS, Stonegate, Stromix
> Tecnologies' Storm Linux, Symphony OS, Skolelinux,
> Tablix on
> Morphix, TelemetryBox, Tilix Linux, TupiServer Linux,
> Ubuntu,
> User Linux, Ubuntu Lite X-evian, Xandros, Xfld,
> Xarnoppix,
> Xebian, Zen Linux, ZoneCD, Zopix, zUbuntu
>
> You might want to understand the playing field before trying
> to play
> ball.
>
> Heh. If you think that list would mean anything to IT managers, you
> have the wrong idea of how they evaluate adoption of a Linux distro.
> That looks like a list of garage bands or Pokemon characters to them.
Evidently, you gave him the attitude. Oh wait, you are in Education?
Egads, I had to deal with stupid people in positions of power due to
fiefdoms and tenure and contracts. In fact, my BIG BIG issue was that he
forced the College into ALL IBM everywhere. The SAN, the Desktops, the
serverside, the DB machines the software... everything. Forced the
College to outsource everything due to expenditures taking over 1/3rd of
the entire (administrative) budget for things non-directly related to
classrooms, educational resources and professors.
BTW, do you even know what half of those listed do? Many are highly
specialized for languages, some are for Clustering, some are for
bio-informatics, some are for games, some are LiveCDs, about 1/4 are
Commercial derivations (similar to Ubuntu), many are just customized
stuff on top of Debian.
Give your manager the raw data, the sheer volume of raw data avilable
about Debian and Debian based ones. If he still blah-blahs it off... get
out while you still can.
Either that or just give up on Debian for you environment. He'll never
change... most Educational Managers won't, until they are outsourced.
I left about 2 years before the whole department was outsourced.
--
greg, greg@gregfolkert.net
Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's
Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at
the playfield. -- Thane Walkup
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