On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 03:04:57PM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote:
>
> But you missed the point, Roberto. A Christian who thinks that *his* god
> and not someone else's god (or no god at all) is in control of all things is
> asserting his control by proxy. Look at it from the Atheist's point of view,
> god doesn't exist, that only leaves the individual standing in front of them
> telling them an imaginary being controls all. The Theist is claiming to have
> answers, that they are right, absolutely. What part of that is not thinking
> they control all?
>
You are apparently confused. Whether *you* choose to admit it or not,
God is control. I am not, you are not, the false gods in which many
choose to believe are not. The God of the Bible is.
> > Out of curiousity, could you provide evidence of something that
> > contradicts anything that is written in the Bible?
>
> I submit the Bible. Google "Bible Contradiction" if you want more than
> enough examples. I'll settle for just one.
>
> # The entire tenth chapter (of Genesis) is the first of many boring
> genealogies (see 1 Chr.1-9, Mt.1:1-17, Lk.3:23-28 for other examples) that we
> are told to avoid in 1 Tim.1:4 and Tit.3:9 ("Avoid foolish questions and
> genealogies.") 10:1-32
>
Matthew 3
5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round
about Jordan,
6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he
said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the
wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for
I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto
Abraham.
That is not a contradiction. The Genealogy of Christ is *not* foolish.
Trusting in your own genealogy to give you salvation *is* foolish.
> > You are also conflating religion and faith. My faith in the Word of God
> > tells me that it is true. When the Bible says something, I believe it.
>
> You do? Really? So, how many Sabbath breakers have you killed today?
> Answer me honestly.
Welcome to the age of grace:
Galatians 5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and
be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit
you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor
to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by
the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Matthew 12
1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his
disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do
that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an
hungred, and they that were with him;
4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was
not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for
the priests?
5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in
the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not
sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked
him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse
him.
11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have
one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold
on it, and lift it out?
12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do
well on the sabbath days.
13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it
forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.
> I'm guessing you're so faithful because of Isaiah 40:8,
> "The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for
> ever." or even Peter and the Psalms where it is repeated "The law of the Lord
> is perfect." If so then clearly you follow Exodus 31:15, "For six days, work
> is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD.
> Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death." Today is the
> Sabbath, Wal-Mart is open, people are working, lock and load soldier!
>
Again, read the scriptures before you spout off about things and look
foolish in front of everyone.
> I'm guessing that you aren't off killing random Wal-Mart employees so
> obviously somewhere you have chosen to disbelieve that tidbit of the Bible.
>
I guess the word dispensation doesn't mean anything to you?
> And no, I'm not going to give you the namby-pamby Jesus excuse. IE, the
> old defense that the New Testament trumps the Old Testament and since the NT
> is nicer than the OT you're off the hook for not committing mass murder. "For
> I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and
> the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
> - Matthew 5:20.
>
His point was that we cannot make ourselves righteous. The Pharisees
and Saducees were seen as the most righteous people of the time. To
be more righteous than they was seen as an impossibility. We are made
righteous by the blood of Christ.
Romans 5
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the
obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
> > Of course, I think it takes lots more "faith" to believe that everything
> > we see and can't see is an accident or happy coincidence than it does to
> > believe that an omnipotent God created it all.
>
> Really? They you get into the regression problem. If the universe is so
> complex that it simply had to be created and your god is so complex we could
> never understand him.... surely then he was created? If he, an obviously more
> complex construct than the universe he supposedly created just appeared then
> why do you feel that people who believe that a far simpler construct, that of
> the universe itself, simply was without resorting to intellectual slight of
> hand? In both cases we believe something just was, difference is your's is a
> lot more fantastical.
>
I'm guessing that you don't believe in the laws of thermodynamics then?
Besides, it is written:
Hebrews 13
9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good
thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not
profited them that have been occupied therein.
Regards,
-Roberto
--
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com
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