Re: Open Source Supported Graphics Cards
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On Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 12:53:12PM -0500, Seth Goodman wrote:
> On Monday, August 14, 2006 11:52 AM -0500, Albert Dengg wrote:
> ...
> At least they can do it, whether we approve of the results of not.
> That's not the case for Debian. If you have to hire a sysadmin to
> install and maintain the system, it is hardly free. Sure, it works well
> for any institution large enough to have an IT staff. Everyone else is
> effectively excluded unless they are willing and able to become computer
> jocks rather than doing their actual jobs. I really think we're
> unnecessarily excluding the largest group of people who could benefit
> from free, open-source software. I don't think we want to be saying
> that computers should only be used by those with access to competent IT
> staff. If that's the club's charter, I'm not a member.
well, in my opinion in a lot of cases it would be advisable to have an
expirienced person doing the more complicated tasks then trying to do it
on your own if you do not have sufficient knowlege of what you are
doing. my time is valuable and it is more efficient if you do all by
yourself. while i would be able to do all repair on my mtb on my own i
let experts do some of them because centering a wheel would take me
about 2 hours while the expert can do it much faster and while i have to
pay him, i can do something other meanwhile...
and the other point: i _have_ installed debian before really knowning
debian (before d-i came up, using old boot floppis installer) and have
seen others doing the same. _if_ they do it with the (open) docu and
read the messages and questions carefully it is quite possible to get a
working system (not some fancy server of course but a normal desktop is
possible), unless of course you have some problematig hardware, but for
example my pc make bigger problems installing winxp then debian (the via
sata controller is supported by d-i, but for winxp i have to install a
floppy drive and create a driver disk to be able to do the install)
> > ...
> >
> > my point is, there are different distros with different goals
> > and also i have 2 "normal users" here using debian without any
> > problems (both don't know pcs worth a damn and would also have
> > problems with windows)...i do the system administration and for
> > them it just works (and for me it is less work them administrating
> > a xp home install which does not have fs permissions where i have
> > to reconstruct all sort of system files they alter/delete be
> > accident... :-) )
>
> You are the sysadmin for these two Windows-type users, which is the only
> environment in which they can realistically use Debian. Take away the
> sysadmin or Linux mentor and the chances of them being able to configure
> a system that is as useful to them as their Windows boxes are slim to
> none.
>
> Your example makes my point quite well. Unsophisticated users
> attempting to use Debian need an experienced user or sysadmin to show
> them how to do anything that is not quickly accessible through a GUI.
> Unsophisticated users can and do successfully configure and use Windows
> (and Mac) boxes every day without the benefits of sysadmins. They can't
> do a domain controller, LDAP or a mail server, but they can construct a
> functioning peer-to-peer network, share printers, access the internet
> and get their email. The fact that the resulting system is insecure is
> due to the horrific quality of the underlying operating system
> implementation, not the fact that there are sufficiently simple wizards
> and GUI's to allow them to configure their own systems.
a well but the problem is _not_ only the problem of the OS sw quality
but also a problem of decisons like always install nearly everything and
also enabling it, and sw is per definition not withount errors...
not OSS, and not closed source sw...
and if you do read the docu you should be able to set up the named
things under debian with webmin and swat, seting up thunderbird is no
different in debian then in windows and the network setup is well
documented...
even though i do not think you should use computers only when you are an
expert but i do think that it is not a real problem for the read a bit
of docu and think before you do something...
one point is of course that to use some peripherals you have to do a bit
more reading under linux then under windows since you have to look for
yourself what software to use to access you digicam for example rather
then installing the simply installing the sw the vendor sold you with
it, and of course some hw does not work with linux as it does with
windows due do missing vendor support, though i had it also the other
way around, my tv card works better under linux then under windows... ;)
yours
albert
- --
Albert Dengg <a_d@gmx.at>
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