On Tuesday 25 July 2006 14:29, Matej Cepl wrote: > Paul Johnson wrote: > > Hmm, what's the deal with the kopete package version being radically > > wrong then? > > kopete is still just part of kdenetwork package, except that now they > decided that they want to make swifter development cycle than KDE itself so > they declared independence. Except that KDE-Qt Debian team is overloaded > and packaging kopete is not exactly piece of cake, so there is no available > package yet. > > > How long have multiple-IM clients been around now? 6 or 8 years? Even > > I think that kopete is actually quite younger -- they begun to work on it > somewhere in KDE 3.* cycle. I meant in general, the whole genre of multi-IM software. GAIM, for example, still can't browse Jabber well enough to be called usable, leaks memory like a sieve, and punches you in the keyboard focus every time anything remotely insignificant happens. Trillian... well, just read some Trillian Pro customer's comments about their Jabber support (you have to pay for the Pro version to get Jabber support, Trillian Pro can only set status and receive messages on Jabber and you only have a 50/50 shot at Trillian being able to use groupchat or SEND MESSAGES. How broken is that?). The genre fails because it's trying to do too much in one piece of software. > > That makes the situation that much sadder, really. > > Why? Well, not quite as sad since apparently Kopete is relatively young and still has some hope. I just found Kopete to be really glitchy when I switched from that to Psi (and Jabber transports) about two years ago (I've since stopped using the obsolete IM networks altogether about a year and a half ago). > > That would be a client issue, the network isn't sending those messages. > > Case in point, Psi 0.10 doesn't tell you when others join or leave > > chatgroups and IRC channels, Psi 0.11 does unless you've just joined, > > then it waits until the list stops filling up before it starts giving > > chat status inline. > > I talked about that with some devs on jdev MUC, and the conclusion was that > you would need to make substantial changes to mod_irc and no-one is willing > to do that--Erlang and all that stuff. Eh, IRC's dying anyway, so I guess it's not a big loss. > > Client issue, I can join #debian no problem, though with a little lag > > until Psi finishes adding all users in the chat to the participants > > frame. > > Can you write /join #debian in one IRC channel so that new tab with other > channel would open? That's what I meant. Well, that doesn't stop the fact it's a client issue. A client could implement joining IRC channels that way, feel free to feature request it or submit a patch, I'm sure whatever project you submit a patch to would be happy for the code. > >> 4) I can add participants to my roster and check their status > > > > OK, these could be worked out better, I agree, and this would be a server > > side problem. I would like to see ejabberd's mod_irc allow you to > > register with it so it'll identify for you, and pass people's status back > > a-la the other transports to obsolete protocols. > > Which unfortunately leads back to mod_irc and Erlang. > > > OTOH, IRC is starting to take the same hit the other obsolete networks > > are, so I'm not sure this will even be an issue in five years... > > What do you mean? IRC is losing users to IM systems in general, and Jabber in particular from the userbase I've encountered, which is to be expected given what we saw with SMTP 10 years ago. This is all just a little bit of history repeating. People gravitate to the most open, accessible protocol naturally. IRC's eventually going to lose for the same reasons the other non-XMPP IM services will eventually lose, and for the same reasons SMTP consolidated email into one protocol (instead of having to deal with AOL, CompuServe, Prodigy, FidoNet, UUCP, etc just to have relatively complete email contact). The Jabber network extends farther with far less egopolitical dog-wagging than any of the existing IRC network could ever dream of. Jabber clients are immediately familiar to any Aunt Tillie user that's used IM before. And nobody likes maintaining four or five usernames and passwords for different redundant systems accomplishing the same general goal, for anything that can be better handled under a single username and password. The ball is already in motion, and it's probably way too late to try and stop it at this point: Instant messaging and groupchat services are eventually going to change to XMPP or die. This is all just a little bit of history repeating. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): baloo@ursine.ca Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber
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