Re: OT: Politics [Was:Social Contract]
Steve Lamb wrote:
Mumia W wrote:
Social Security is not highly suspect. It's not even suspect. It's
simply the most popular social program in U.S. history.
Just because it is popular doesn't mean people don't find it suspect.
How does protecting the poor and elderly destroy society?
Vote pandering, class and race warfare,
The Right Wing *is* class and race warface. That's what drives them, and
that's what gives them political success.
wealth redistribution and
The biggest wealth redistribution in planetary history is occurring
right now as the ultra-wealthy squeeze the middle-class into oblivion by
outsourcing their jobs to China and India while abolishing usury laws so
as to subject Americans to lifelong debt slavery.
other such activities when engaged by the government and religious
groups upon the population at large destroy society.
[...]
[...] I bought one of [Thomas Sowell's] books back when I was smaller-brained and
right-wing. His is the typical Right-Wing mantra, Reaganomics,
Laffer curve, racism is an illusion, all very boring now and all
proven 100% false.
Oddly enough, they haven't. If so, please cite sources. So far,
time and again, they've been proven right.
Reagonomics:
http://www.nathannewman.org/log/archives/001746.shtml
In the post-WW II period-- after the debt incurred to pay for that
war -- the US national debt stayed essentially flat at just under a
trillion dollars in real dollars for almost thirty years.
Then Reagan came in and the debt skyrocketed [...]
Laffer Curve:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve#Context_in_US_History
[T]he whole California gang had taken [the Laffer curve] literally
(and primitively). The way they talked, they seemed to expect that
once the supply-side tax cut was in effect, additional revenue would
start to fall, manna-like, from the heavens. Since January, I had
been explaining that there is no literal Laffer curve.
Racism:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/barrybar/41431871
"White people find; black people loot."
Continuing...
The purpose of Social Security is *not* high-income. It serves as a
safety-net for the lower middle-class and working poor.
Never said it was. The point, however, is that the people from which
social security is forcably removed WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF IF IT
HADN'T. That includes the lower middle class and working poor!
The Social Security Administration invests in the U.S. government,
and yeah, I think that's going to pay off :-)
And you say it isn't a Ponzi. Wasn't one of the points of a Ponzi
scan was that they got people to reinvest into the scam.
No, one of the points of a Ponzi scheme is that people are *tricked*
into giving money into it.
So the
government taxes people for this scam and reinvests it in the
government.... *laugh*
He raised taxes and gave us the longest period of economic growth
in American history. Heck, he could've grown us out of the Social
Security problem. Too bad we couldn't give him a third term.
Pst, reality check. Clinton's economic boom was because he cut taxes
and deregulated the telecommunications industry.
Actually he gave us two tax increases, a balanced budget, lower interest
rates and even a lower national debt.
The tax increases helped the government pay its bills without dipping
into the bond market, and that helped keep interest rates down.
Increasing taxes *does* help the economy when you use the taxes to
balance the budget.
Balancing the budget was something that economists, including
Republicans, had been asking the government to do for decades. Bill
Clinton did it. His reward: more revisionist history and bashing from
the Right Wing.
He also got to
come off the economic policies set in motion by Reagan/Bush I.
Clinton's economic legacy is evident in the downturn that started
prior
That's the dot-com bust--not Clinton's fault.
to Bush II taking office (which he is often mistakenly credited
for) that was further harshened by 9/11's chilling effects on
business and pleasure travel. 9/11, of course, was a plan that was
dreamed up and set in motion during the years of Clinton's lax stance
on terrorism.
Nearly every one of the perpetrators of terrorists acts against America
were pursued, caught, tried and punished during the Clinton
administration. What Clinton didn't to was to go to war with entire
countries just because of a few nuts.
Let's not forget that the intelligence wall between
the FBI and CIA which supposedly prevented vital intelligence which
could have prevented 9/11 was a CLINTON policy.
No it wasn't. It was federal government policy aimed at protecting civil
liberties that had developed over a period of 60 years:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200508110001
As much as I dislike Bush II at least I have the honesty to
understand that the first year or two of his presidency will be
heavily influenced by the polices and procedures set in place by the
prior administration's term in office.
Bush evidently was influenced by the Clinton era. He saw the 5 trillion
dollar surplus Clinton gave us, and Bush had Cheney do some quick math
to find out he had to spend 15 trillion to get us a $10 trillion
deficit. To coin a phrase from your President, "It's hard work" turning
a $5 trillion surplus into a $10 trillion deficit.
As much as people would like
to blame him entirely for the economic downturn and 9/11 those were
things that took years to come to fruition. That means the last 9
months that Bush was in office is really the smallest portion of what
people need to look at. Of course everyone is so focused on Bush
they don't even try to look at Clinton's culpability in any of this.
Which is exactly why you think that Bush is the sole reason why
Social Security is in shambled and ignore the fact that Clinton
before him faced the exact same issues and did nothing.
Clinton didn't have to do anything about Social Security. Our nation was
set to grow itself out of the problem. Some portion of that $5 trillion
surplus would've helped.
And Clinton came closer to blowing OBL into tiny chunks than
Bush ever has. He missed him by 40 minutes.
Facts are inconvenient to your world view.
It looks like I have the facts on my side.
-- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key:
8B6E99C5 | And dream I do...
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