Re: The Debian IRC channel
On Monday 20 Dec 2004 14:13, Stephen Rueger wrote:
> This is what actually happened:
>
Hi all,
Since I both lurk on #debian and debian-user, I thought I would comment.
First off, irc is the wrong place to be asking questions. This is because
irc answers are lost after a couple of days but answers posted to mailing
lists are around forever. For the people answering, this is ideal because
then they would only need to answer questions once and then everyone would
find the answer with google (or at least get replies pointing them to the
answer and a reminder to google).
Secondly: d-u is run by the debian project. If this list fell into anarchy
(insert joke here) it could be cleaned up by the project. The same is not
true of #debian. irc brings out the worst in people, to the point where I
just lurk unless I know the bulk of people on the channel in person.
that being said, you shot yourself in the foot a couple of times, I will try
and point out where:
> 00:42 -!- macon [~naim@pppoe1-dby.broadcom.dk] has joined #debian
>
> 01:24 macon> I have been using debian for about 4 years now, and I
> always found that people on this channel is kindda "rude"
> if one doesn't "it right away", tonight I was doing some
> work with Fedora Core 3 and I used there fedora channel
> and the linux channel and people was so friendly and
> helpful. I just want to say to all people here that it is
> important to stay patient and helpfull. Specially because
> Debian sometimes needs a bit more work to work :-)
Ok, you have started by comparing debian to $DISTRO (not quite, but that is
how it reads top me) . This is bad because:
1) debian people already know they use the best distro ever, they don't need
to be told.
2) if you walk into a distro channel and start comparing it negatively to
another distro, they will assume you are trolling. #debian has had big
problems with gentoo trolls in the past, and the ops overreact to it.
> 01:25 macon> No need to freak out just because someone didn't find the
> info on the man page.
Every reason to freak out. You are now talking about the regulars being a
replacement for the docs, how would you like being regarded as a walking
help desk?
> 01:27 macon> less work to work, yeah well thats a matter of opinion ;)
> I love debian and use it a lot. But I just spend 2 days
> getting PPPoE up and I finally found that for some reason
> the stable version of pppoeconf didn't work right, so I
> used the unstable and no problems, tonight on fedora it
> took about 30 secs.
you are doing this distro debate again,
> 01:29 macon> I think that some peope think they are "specielly wise"
> just because they are using debian, and thus forgets to
> be friendly.
Gurus in any field are normally blunt. if a person is being rude but they
know what they are talking about, ignore they rudeness. If they don't know
what they are talking about, ignore them.
> 01:30 greycat> macon: I think some people are "specially annoying"
> just because they think they're friendlier than the
> rest of us.
> 01:31 macon> greycat: Ahh, so you are one of them :-) I figured you'd
> show up quick ;-)
when arguing with an op, keep the following bash.org quote in mind
http://www.bash.org/?78873
> 01:32 directhex> macon, misery loves company. there are hundrefds of
> really friendly fedora users just dying to tell you
> thay they had a problem JUST LIKE the one you had,
> but they never found a solution. tried looking on the
> linuxquestions.org forum? nothing but simple
> questions from fedora and mandrake users, who are
> really unhelpful but certainly friendly
> 01:36 macon> I don't agree. The general spirit on fedora and Linux is
> much more friendly..
> 01:36 macon> anyone being here daily..
> 01:36 greycat> macon: then go there.
> 01:37 macon> Isn't people rude right away when people don't get an
> answer? 01:37 macon> I am getting a lot of pm from people who agree, and
> I think we should do something to change the atmosphere on this channel a
> bit!
> 01:38 MobyTurbo> macon: then start your own channel.
> 01:38 greycat> macon: then start #debian-friendly or something.
> 01:38 PerfDave> macon: Well, I'm getting a lot of pm from people who
> think you're a tit ;)
> 01:38 macon> No, thats not the solution.. the solution is to get the
> admin of this channel - since it is thew biggest to kick
> people who are rude off!
> 01:39 greycat> macon: please shut up.
> 01:39 petemc> macon: check the channel owner
If you look though the most recent block of messages, you will see quite a
few people trying to stop you from digging yourself into a hole when you
are tarring them with the "unhelpful" brush.
> 01:39 PerfDave> macon: But the people who are less than entirely
> friendly are also the people who are most helpful and
> knowlegeable. Which is why they get to be so snarky,
> when confronted with comparative idiots all day and
> getting no reward for volunteering their services.
he has a point
> 01:40 macon> PerfDave: Those very people are the ones who are stuckup
> with the nose high in the air completely not
> understanding the true spirit of debian!!
> 01:41 PerfDave> macon: and what is the "true spirit of Debian"? In
> which document of the Debian Project is it written?
> 01:41 macon> And they are also the ones contaminating debian community
> 01:41 greycat> macon: and what, o mighty knower of all that is right,
> is the "true spirit" of debian?
> 01:41 macon> Well you would know that if you didn't spend most of the
> time here being stuckup yourselfs.. check out the debian
> website.
at this point you are asking for it. Where on the debian website does it
say: "be nice to those who insult you"?
> 01:42 -!- macon was kicked from #debian by caphuso [caphuso]
> 01:42 -!- mode/#debian [+b *!*@pppoe1-dby.broadcom.dk] by caphuso
I talked it over with one of the ops, and he said that in the case of people
giving abuse, the normal thing to do is to kick them. You fell into that
group of people.
Hope this helps explain where you went wrong. Lots of other people have
offered advice on good irc'ing so I won't do that
have a merry christmas
Pete
Reply to: