Re: Six GMail Invites, First come, First Served!
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:36:59 -0700, Steve Lamb <greyed@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:38:26 -0700, Daved Daly <daved.daly@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Perhaps you've misunderstood the concept of "Beta". :)
>
> Uh, no. Been on quite a few betas in my time.
I was jokingly saying that, not at all trying to insinuate that you
don't have a clue what you're talking about.
It's your opinion, so you can't be wrong there.
I'm mostly just interested in what makes a viable webmail solution for
everyone. I have no relation to Google.
> Nope because the problem stems from the very core of how they are
> doing things.
I'm still not sure, I really understand exactly what you mean there...
> > Personaly, I think GMail is great for viewing mailing lists with, it's
> > primarily the only application I use it for... since for most other
> > communication I'd rather send mail from my personal domain name.
>
> How so? It is extremely bad for it. I gave it the most simple of
> tests. 2 lists. That's it. 2 lists. I'm on the same 2 lists
> elsewhere. In GMail it is a mess and that mess stems from what they
> are doing. On the traditional client or even another webmail client
> it isn't as much of a mess.
Again, I dont exactly get what you mean by that "it's a mess", at
least I don't quite see it that way.
I use it for 19 different low to medium traffic lists. With the
filters I've setup, everything's fairly neatly organized and easily
accessible.
> Granted. But tell me how I can get a clear, concise view of new
> mail in a reasonable manner using labels. First problem, labels
> include all archived mail. Of course since they make it so difficult
> to actually delete mail it means that in less than an hour or two
> using labels to separate things out is a complete and total mess.
> There's no clear deliniation between new and old mail.
Using Labels to separate things out without a Filter to automaticaly
assign labels would be a pain...
> > Tho, their filter rules are adequate but they could use more options,
> > some of which they are already working on.
>
> You'd think they'd just have a simple option of allowing complete
> headers to be filered on so we could use "List-id: debian-user@" as a
> filter. Nope.
Yes, that'd be handy.
I'd be willing to bet if enough people submit a feature request
suggesting more explicit filtering options they'd put it in.
About half the things I've written them and asked about have appeared
within a few weeks.
Originaly a To: filter didnt even check Cc: or Reply-To: headers...
people sent in complaints/suggestions, and now it does.
> > I'm curious as to why you consider Hotmail as better?
>
> Because Hotmail is not taking the tried and true methods of the
> past and throw them out the window. With Hotmail the basics are
> covered up front. Folders, check. Filters to get mail into those
> folders (not great, but hey, it's Hotmail) check, the ability to see
> at a glance what folders have new mail and be able to find it at a
> glance, know who its from at a glance and what it's about, check.
> Those aren't possible with GMail. Great, so this "conversation"
> consists of Steve, Daved, James, John and Louie. Only one of those is
> readily identifiable, the rest are rather common names. On my main
> client, Hotmail and my own Webmail (Squirrelmail) I can at least tell
> at a glance who it is from, identify relevant and current threads as
> opposed to "Oh, this one was replied to recently" and, here's the
> kicker, selectively delete messages. In GMail you either archive
> (which causes problems), delete whole threads (thereby running the
> risk of deleting the one or two messages you want to keep) or go
> through a 5-step process per message to delete it. That's a
> fundimental and basic problem stemming from their attempt to throw out
> the tried and true method of reading mail and replace it with
> something new but ultimately inferior.
Google seems to market GMail with the "Search not Sort" idea, which
I've written to them that I think is a mistake. So many people are
used to the concept of folders and filters to easily sort out mail
that their idea of "just clump it all together and search for what you
want to find" isn't what anybody is going to do.
When I sign up for a new mailinglist, I immediately create a Label for it.
Then I create a filter.
In this case the Label is "Debian" and the filter is:
Matches: to:(lists.debian.org)
Do this: skip Inbox, apply label "Debian"
When I sign in to GMail I can immediately see if there's new mail on
the list based on the bolding of the Label (and the #, Debian (9)).
Clicking the label link I have a nice threaded view of all mail sent
to the list with New topics or replies displayed in Bold.
Your point about the names in a conversation being ambiguous at a
quick glance is true, you can however mouse over the names and get the
full email address.
Threads with the most recent activity will always show up at the top.
Selectively deleting a message out of a thread I don't find that
particularly hard. Click "More options" on the message you want to
trash, then "Trash this message".
> Great concept, could be better integrated into how things are done
> instead of trying to foist another screwy way of doing things that
> will have net vets gnashing their teeth for years to come just like
> top posting has done. >.<
There's some things that I don't like about it... A lot of the time I
just want to see new threads, and immediately mark them all as read.
Doing this takes a couple extra clicks then I'd prefer... but it's not
too horrible, and I'd bet it will continue to evolve and change.
-Daved
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