Re: [OT, FLAME] Linux Sucks
On Wednesday 26 March 2003 09:23 am, Marc Wilson wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 04:42:02AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 03:07:24PM -0800, Marc Wilson wrote:
> > > Gods, whyinhell would you need X in order to install a distribution?
> > > That's just silly.
> >
> > That's why debian-installer will have a classic curses flavored
> > front-end, among others. Don't want a GUI in your installer? Then
> > don't pick it.
>
> It's not a question of *me* not wanting a GUI. I'm asking whyinhell
> *anyone* would want one. What does it enhance?
>
> What's the design goal? So far the only thing I've ever seen in print is
> that it needs to be done because the lamers want it.
>
> Debian strives for technical excellence. So supposedly, adding a GUI to
> the installer improves things somehow?
In this thread I've seen examples of the best and worst of what I've seen on
this list. I've seen people who are focused on reaching out and helping
people. I've also seen people who are so busy showing much intelligence they
are that, at the same time, they are showing how little smarts they have.
This is an example of the latter. It's just plain dumb, elitist, and
ignorant.
And I'm speaking from a professional point of view -- from someone who has
spent a lot of his life working with psychologists in educational situations.
I've had to learn a lot about how people think and react.
While some people do better with a command line interface, others do much
better with an intuitive or graphical interface. It has NOTHING to do with
intelligence or ability or smarts. It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact
that different people learn and perceive in different ways. Some people
learn and take in information best when everything is neat and orderly.
Others do best in what may be perceived as a chaotic environment. Some deal
only with facts, others work intuitively.
This has been proven many times and is FACT. It's something I, as a special
ed teacher working in residential treatment facilities, have had to deal with
over and over in my life. If you want a pop-culture example, go out and read
about the Myers-Briggs personality type test.
One thing I've found is those who need information to be orderly have a
tendancy to be completely intolerant of the intuitive thinkers, looking down
on them, and insisting that they are not as good, since they can't do things
the "right" way. On the other hand, studies have shown that it is the people
who look for other ways that are the innovators in this world.
You may like the curses interface. Good for you. Others may, for MANY
reasons, prefer a more intiutive interface. That does not make them stupid
or worse. It means they perceive and process information differently than
you.
The fact that you don't see what a GUI enhances and that you call those who
need a GUI "lamers" does, however, show that you are stuck in your own point
of view and are ignorant of the fact that others work differently. While not
as dangerous or ugly as ignorance of different ethnic groups or races, it is
the same -- a prejudice born out of ignorance.
I'm sure you'll call this psycho-babble (I've noticed the more literally
oriendted tech people do this often-- if something disproves what they say or
makes them look bad, instead of dealing with it, they go into denial and find
a negative label for the offending statement(s) so they can justify calling
names and ignoring a different point of view), but it's fact, it's proven,
and I've seen and had to deal with these different styles of perception over
and over in my daily life for years.
Adding a GUI installer is just as much a part of technical excellence as
anything else Debian. It is jsut a different type of excellence -- a kind
which, obviously, you do not understand.
Just because you don't see a need for a GUI installer doesn't mean you should
denigrate those who do.
Sorry for the rant, but I've seen several comments like this in this thread.
It is true Debian is advanced. I'd never recommend it for a Linux newbie.
Someone who's only used a Windoze GUI should be trying Mandrake or Lycoris or
Lindows, NOT Debian. The original poster was very much showing his inability
to think or reason. It's sparked some good discussion about what is good and
bad about Debian. Comments like the above, however, don't help anyone. They
just say, "I'm so ignorant I not only can't see why anyone would want change,
but I'm going to denigrate anyone who does and who does not think and work in
the way I do."
Such thinkers were probably there in the early 1900's, telling Henry Ford
there's no reason we need the horseless carriage, since the horse-and-buggy
was good enough for them. They would have told the Wright brothers only the
lazy need flight to get somewhere quickly.
Hal
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