Re: Linux partition question
On Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 09:57:12AM -0600, Donald Spoon wrote:
> debian parisc wrote:
> >Hello,
> >
> >although I've been reading this list for a few months now I haven't
> >actually installed in on a i386 pc (although I have installed it on a HP
> >Unix server - well smooth). I'm now read to install on my home PC, to
> >ensure that my wife doesn't divorce me I need to make sure that I get it
> >right. I'm going to resize my windows98 partition to free up 10GB on
> >which I will put 2 logical partition of 5GB each (i'll probably run
> >stable on one and testing on the other or maybe woody and mandrake).
> >I'm going to use Partition Magic 7 to resize it. Having looked at the
> >instructions on Powerquest's site it says this
> >
> >"IMPORTANT! In most cases, the Windows partition and the Linux Ext2
> >partition must start below the 8 GB boundary to be bootable. However, if
> >your system supports INT13 extensions, then Windows XP/2000, Windows Me,
> >and some Linux distributions can boot beyond the 8 GB boundary. Check
> >your system documentation to determine if your machine supports INT13
> >extensions."
> >
> >Does that mean that if my Linux partitions are first I can't boot
> >windows98? or if I put Windows first (10GB) I won't be able to boot
> >linux? and what is INT13?
> >
> >regards
> >
> >Leo
> >
>
> The Windows 98 partition(s) should be first. Linux (Debian) doesn't
> care where it resides with the newer versions of LILO available in
> Debian Woody, but some Windows versions seem to be quite particular. If
> you use a boot loader like LILO or GRUB, you will be able to boot into
> either Windows or Linux.
My Windoze 98 partition is the second partition and it boots OK.
This partition has the bootable flag set, so Windoze calls it C:.
Admittedly it is still below the 8GB limit. Whether or not Windoze
gives boot problems above this limit depends on the BIOS. If the BIOS
allows LBA mode for hard drives you should be OK. Since your HD must
be pretty big if you can free up 10GB on it I'd guess that your whole
machine is recent enough. Most BIOSes after the early-mid 90s support
LBA.
You probably will have BIOS problems that stop you booting Windoze if
you swap this HD into another machine. Different BIOSes, or even the
same BIOS on different MBs, use varying CHS-LBA translation methods;
this stops Windoze finding its boot sector. But this will be a problem
even if you leave the disk exactly as it is. Linux, as stated above,
is more intelligent.
> You should take into considertion that you can only have 4 "primary"
> partitions on a HD. You should have at least one "swap" partition for
> your Linux installs. It can be shared between the two installs. Check
> and see if your Windows install is using more than one "primary"
> partition. If it is, then your plan will probably not work.
> Linux/Debian works OK when placed on "extended" partitions, so that is a
> way out.. if you need it.
This is unlikely to be a problem as Microsoft's fdisk thinks you can
only have one primary and one extended partition, so an MS-only HD
will always have two free entries in the MBR partition table.
(Microsoft's docs on partition tables are wrong even with respect to
their own operating systems. There are warnings everywhere saying "you
can only have one primary DOS partition". That's only because DOS
fdisk won't let you create more than one. I regularly set up two
primary DOS partitions to dual-boot DOS and Windoze by swapping the
bootable flag, and it works just fine.)
>From your original post it looks like you only have one Windoze
partition anyway, so no problem.
> Partition Magic after version 4.0 works great. I have used it here to
> resize and create Linux partitions many times.
But back up your Windoze disk anyway. Even if the software is perfect,
you might still have a brownout at just the wrong moment!
On Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 10:05:49AM -0600, Jeffrey L. Taylor wrote:
> Quoting debian parisc <debianparisc@hotmail.com>:
>
> > Does that mean that if my Linux partitions are first I can't boot
> > windows98?
Only if your BIOS doesn't support LBA.
> > or if I put Windows first (10GB) I won't be able to boot linux?
That used to be the case, but not anymore.
> > and what is INT13?
INT13 is the BIOS function used to provide access to the hard drive.
To cut a long story short, the original PC's INT13 suffered from a
size limitation, this began to be a problem in the 90s, and the
solution which eventually became universal is commonly referred to as
"LBA" or "INT13 / INT48 extensions".
>
> Yes, this is essentially what this means, because you have Win98.
I disagree...
> Your choices are:
>
> 1) Make sure that your system supports the BIOS INT13 extensions (able
> to boot from cylinders beyond 1024) and upgrade to Windows XP/2000.
I don't think you need to upgrade to XP/2000. If the BIOS supports
LBA, Win98 will boot, as the BIOS will be providing MS-compatible
translated CHS parameters by the time the MBR is executed.
This will in any case only be an issue if you move your Windoze
partition so that it isn't the first one on the drive, as it is at the
moment.
> 2) Split your disk into multiple partitions such that Win98's C: drive
> and /boot partitions for the Linuxes all start below cylinder 1024.
> The D: partition and the Linux root partitions ("/") can start above
> this. This is a pain because you probably will need to re-install
> several large apps in the D: partition.
If your Win98 partition starts below cylinder 1024 there is DEFINITELY
no problem booting it even if it's not the first partition. So you
could have:
partition 1 : Linux boot (small, ends below cyl. 1024)
partition 2 : Windoze (existing C:, resized; must have bootable flag set)
partition 3 : Linux swap
partition 4 : Linux main
and if Partition Magic does its work correctly, no need to reinstall
anything.
But since current Linuxes can boot from beyond cyl. 1024, there's no
need.
> 3) Buy another disk and put the Linuxes on it. A boot manager in
> installed in the MBR of the first HD. It allows you to select which
> OS to boot. Boot floppies for each Linux allows you to leave Win98 on
> the 1st HD undisturbed.
>
> Given the price of HDs, the price of Partition Magic, and the hidden
> cost of messing up, I'd go with option 3. Or go buy a new or used box
> to play with and totally leave your wife's computer environment alone.
> This is what we settled on.
I too would favour this option. The Windoze installation can be left
totally undisturbed, which is much safer. And I'd find 10GB a bit
cramped before long these days. (When I were a lad we used to live in
a shoebox in't middle o't motorway, we used to dream of 20 megabyte
hard drives...)
> There are probably other options besides these three (running VMware
> comes to mind).
Given that your main priority when installing Linux is to avoid
divorce, I'd go for an option which is oh so uncool that nobody else
ever mentions it.
You want to avoid installing a new boot manager, so your wife doesn't
have some weird new screen to freak her out when she boots up. You
find some spare disk space to install Linux on, and install Linux on
it. You answer NO when the Debian installer asks if you now want to
Make the Disk Bootable. You make a folder on the Windoze drive into
which you install the Linux kernel image and the program LOADLIN.EXE
from the install directory on the Debian CD. You write a batch file
LINUX.BAT to pass to LOADLIN the name of the kernel image and the
location of the Linux root partition.
When your wife boots up, she sees no difference, except that Windoze
shows a couple of extra disk drives with apparently nothing on them.
When you want to boot Linux, you either Restart in MS-DOS Mode or hold
down Ctrl as the "Starting Windows 98..." message appears and select
"Command prompt only", and run LINUX.BAT. Kerpow! Linux takes over.
You could also install different Linuxes, with appropriate WOODY.BAT,
TESTING.BAT, MANDRAKE.BAT etc. to fire them up.
I don't have a wife. I have a pigeon. But someone else probably on
this list also finds this the most divorce-proof method (sorry,
forgotten who.)
This method also protects you against the "I built a new kernel and
forgot to run lilo and now I can't boot" phenomenon.
Pigeon
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