Re: Why mailing-lists? Usenet have been invented, I hear. ;-)
At 2002-09-10T01:47:38Z, David Pastern <david@scsenterprises.com.au> writes:
> You guys are goddamn rude.
The original poster basically said "I don't like the culture you've created,
and it's a waste of my time, and don't bother replying." I thought that the
responses were pretty considerate given the harsh opening.
> I've fucked around with Debian linux now for nearly a week, spending
> countless hours trying to get it to work and it's still rooted.
Countless? There are less than 168 of 'em in a week. :)
> MAN pages are pathetic. They're great if you're a really experienced
> user. If not, they are just downright plain confusing, quite often not
> even touching on the subject that you want to know about.
I completely disagree. Man pages typically tell you exactly how to to
execute a given program. If that's not what you're looking for, then you're
in the wrong place.
Put another way, my dictionary doesn't have in-depth articles on space
travel, South America, and the history of pencils, but that doesn't make it
"pathetic".
> Go visit a few IRC channels for help and you get rudely treated (i've tried
> 4 different IRC servers thanks and quite politely, i've had enough). The
> RTFM attitude that most experienced linux users pervay is pathetic.
The converse is also true. Being peppered with questions about an
application that are answered in its online help, or finding the answer to
someone's question within the first three Google hits is horribly
frustrating, especially when it happens more than once from the same person:
User: "What does the '-l' option to 'ls' do?"
Me: "Check out 'man ls'."
User: "Oh. What does the '-a' option to 'ls' do?"
Me: "man ls."
User: "Darnit! What does the '-r' option to 'ls' do?"
Me: "Go. Read. The. Manual."
User: "You're a jerk!"
> And counter productive to open source' image.
Which is what? I write and use Free Software because I like doing it and
because it accomplishes my goals. I couldn't give a rat's butt about its
"image" so long as I can still use it and people keep submitting bug
reports. I suspect I speak for the majority who couldn't care less.
> I'll make a parallel here: take for instance a photography club. You get
> newbies all the time. You don't see experienced members of the
> photography club in my example back stabbing. Or being rude. Or being
> unhelpful.
That's because you don't see newbies asking questions like:
"I just bought a $500 camera. Now what?"
"I've had this $20 Nepalese 110 camera for 30 years. What do you mean,
I can't use APS film?"
"What film do I buy? What film do I buy? What film do I buy? Answer
me! What film do I buy? What film do I buy? You haven't answered yet!
What film do I buy?"
"I have a question, but don't have time for the answer. Would you type
it up nicely and mail it to my house?"
"You guys *owe* it to me to get my camera working!"
"I know you just invented your own 35mm film that has wonderful color at
20 cents per roll, but if it doesn't work in my camera, then you're an
idiot and a jerk!"
If photography clubs had to deal with stuff like that, you'd see more
pictures of Ansel Adams kicking the crap out of Polaroid-bearing tourists.
> I'd recently bought (yes paid money) for Suse 8 pro.
Stop right there. You have a problem with a for-profit company. That has
absolutely nothing with the group of volunteers who do this stuff for free
on mailing lists and newsgroups - nothing at all. Complain to and about
Suse all you want, but please leave Debian and its users out of it.
> This is all about atttitude, and quite plainly, the attitude of most
> experienced linux users SUCKS. Badly. I'll tell you know - for every 5
> people that try linux, 3 walk away from it for these exact reasons.
> Imagine how many people linux/open source is losing due to poor attitude.
> If you don't believe me ask newbies for their opinion on this subject.
> Most are too scared to admit it, so they keep their mouths shut. Some are
> outspoken, like myself.
Know what? You've just described a great business plan. If the only thing
holding Linux back is a support group, then you might want to start one.
Keep us informed of how it works out!
--
Kirk Strauser
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