Re: The future of Debian install??
On Friday 08 March 2002 06:55, Oki DZ wrote:
> Francisco M. Marzoa Alonso wrote:
>
> The install part on RH is better than what's in Debian, even today;
> especially when it goes to X. I never said that fresh install in Debian
> was easier. On Debian, it is a _lot_ easier when installing individual
> package; in my case, using apt-get.
Yes, apt-get is a great tool, but we wasn't talking about it.
> > Keep on mind that everyone can configure this distribution; its not a
> > matter of brain, its a matter of TIME, and there's a lot of people that
> > needs a computer to do things very different that spent time configuring
> > the SO, specially if they're not computer technicians; they do NOT NEED
> > to know
>
> Well, I believe that given the same task, if somebody can do it faster,
> then there's something in the brain.
An elitist... well, if you can configure X from scratch faster than the
computer itself, then you should think about go to the Guinness show.
Computers are done to make our lifes easy and to let us avoid repetitive
tasks. I'm not psychologist, but I think making repetitive things faster is
not a manner of evaluate inteligence (or is it?). A monkey can do that kind
of things faster than an human if it is trained.
> > nothing about the underlaying technology as, in example, a JAVA
> > programmer DO NOT NEED to know nothing about x86 assembler or an x86
> > assembler programmer DO NOT NEED to know the machine codes of each
> > mnemonic.
>
> I believe that on installing a fresh Debian system, X is the barrier
> that you have to overcome; if in fact you needed to run X.
>
> BTW, in the homepage, it is stated that the friendly UI is the shell;
> even for beginners.
> In http://packages.debian.org/unstable:
> Shells
> Command shells. Friendly user interfaces for beginners.
There was an old expresion that looks like "Unix is user friendly, but it
choose its friends carefully".
> So, regarding X on Debian, X is extra; something that you have to deal
> with to pass the beginner stage.
This is not reasonable indeed. Imagine that a graphic designer needs to use
its system to develop images; yes, it can write a jpeg byte by byte with the
help of 'dd bs=1 if=/dev/stdin >> mygraph.jpg' (vi is for awful users, echo
sucks! gimp? what's gimp?) a calculator (moreover, without it!!!!) a lot of
paper and more patiente. Despite the fact that fractals are for
mathematician, not for graphic desingers, then it could think "well... why
I'm using a computer?".
You don't need to know how a turbo works or a direct inyection diesel engine
does to be an excellent driver.
Is the computer that must cover the requeriments of the user, and not the
other way.
> It's a bit different with other Linux
> systems; on others, you'd get into X (pretty automatically) and then go
> to the command shells when they are ready. On Debian, you go to the
> shell first; at least to learn what "ls" is. Later, when you need
> something fancy (like others), you have to install X (pretty manually,
> espescially on XF86Config).
>
> I believe that the Debian approach is better, in terms of learning;
[...]
> Thing is, I believe that people wouldn't go manual if they could do it
> automatically.
[...]
Integrist? Well, If you want to learn how X works, then learn how X works, if
you want to practise some kind of religion, then do it, but let the rest of
people decide by themselves what they need/want to learn.
> > Finally, I'll like to know everything about every field, but none lives
> > forever.
>
> None lives forever... but to know everything, actually all you need to
> do is to go in silence; in all there is silence, and in silence there is
> all.
Erm... did you see Kung-Fu reciently? know everything in a life is, of course
impossible, but still to know "a lot" everyone needs time, in all there is
time, and time is short as hell. (Gamma Ray)
> > If Debian has have a better (call it "easier" or "faster" or so...)
> > setup system, I've had migrate to it from years ago.
>
> You flamed on things that I didn't say. All I say was: Debian is better
> compared to RH on installing packages.
We must stand for different threads. At the beggining of my one you was
insinuating that Debian was better "cause a Red Hat user don't knows nothing
about X".
And yes, apt-get rules... so?...
BTW, don't know in RH, but at least in SuSE rpm says the package dependeces
you need to complet, not the individual files. This is not as cool as apt-get
but not as bad as you paint it neither.
Have a good one,
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