Re: What DO you lose with Linux ???
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On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:10:33 -0600 (MDT), John Galt wrote:
>I posited a problem wherein FTP and HTTP were both unavailable, so the
>obvious solution is mail--NOT snail mail, email.
And if email isn't available? And the protocol after that? And after
that?
It reminds me of a discussion a while back I had in the newsgroups
against people who were so determined that everyone must know how to use vi
to be called unix proficient. I told them I've been using Linux for 2+
years, unix in general for 5+ years, was a SysAdmin and didn't know, care to
know, or felt the need to learn vi. My answer, joe.
Well, one guy came up with a great situation. "What if..." What if I
were on a machine that had no compiler, had no net access, no floppy drive,
had no other editors or things which could be used *as* editors (sed & ed
come to mind) but did have vi. How would I then edit files? I declared the
machine unusable as it was obviously so archaic and/or esoteric that it is
beyond and reasonable need of mine and I would promptly turn it off and find
a real machine.
Your "situation" is the same. It is easy to make a case where your
answer is the only solution simply by excluding all other viable solutions.
"What if..." What if both FTP and HTTP are unavailable. In such a
situation, you've got problems more than email because if those two *basic*
and *standard* protocols aren't available then your network is, in a word,
fucked.
As in the situation with vi, there comes a point when you just go
elsewhere for the solution. Just because every sane protocol is unavailable
gives you a reason to break and abuse any protocol which is left and,
further, to demand that other systems allow you to break said protocol. In
my 6 month tenure as postmaster at my former job, a local ISP, I had two
people complain to me because we would not allow email messages larger than
5Mb. They would not hear about DoS issues, or storage issues, or how to
properly move the data, they wanted their attachments or else. I told both,
or else. If they could find an ISP which suited their needs, they were more
then welcome. That is why I am so vehemently opposed to anyone using email
for large attachments. That is why I say that as the size of the attachment
goes up, its value goes down. At some point it is better to use another
protocol for a variety of technical and social reasons, EVEN IF it is the
only protocol available (IE, another protocol is mail it) and EVEN IF the
file is requested by the other user.
>The abuses are there, but there are times when FTP and HTTP are unusable--
And in those cases I have described the proper response. If it is an
ISP, change ISPs. Any ISP which does not provide space and the meens for
anonymous FTP and web space with a functional HTTP server is screwing you.
If it is because of corporate policy, either use an ISP or go over IT's head
because they are obviously a bunch of clueless nits. In the interim, mail it.
>This problem is going to be with us a long time, and carping about the
>unsuitability one of the protocols for large files ain't helping.
Meanwhile another problem is going to be with us for a long time. It is
caled the Denial of Service attack. Furthermore, even legit attachments
cause problems. In some cases with qpopper and Eudora (All versions to
date) if a large attachment (1Mb is large enough) hits the mailbox, Eudora
chokes and will not download it. Outlook(9X/Express) has a similar problem,
I just don't know the rough size that triggers it. A person who uses PMMail
got a 6.5Mb attachment. PMMail would download it fine, but he wanted to get
it last, not first, and is now looking to the authors for a way to have
PMMail not automatically fetch upon startup, at his discretion, so he can
get the other messages first and then let PMMail get that one on the next
check. Encouraging an abuse of the mail protocols doesn't help any of these
and all three are problems that the professionals that keep the Internet
running day in and day out encounter on a nearly daily, if not hourly basis.
How about this, if email is such a viable option for files, why isn't
there an email method for dselect? Silly? That is how I see the whole idea
of large files through email. Sure, someone could make an email method for
dselect, and it would work, and, by your elimination of other options,
someone really shoud. "What if..." What if someone doesn't have a floppy
drive, doesn't have a CDROM, can't FTP, can't use HTTP, but somehow got
Debian onto the machine in the first place and wants to upgrade?
- --
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
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