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Re: dunc pppd configuration script

On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Robert D. Hilliard wrote:

> On 05 Dec 1997 16:24:10 john@dhh.gt.org wrote:
> > Richard G. Roberto writes: 
> > > I also want to address this issue about "standard" options file
> > > locations.  It is impossible to manage multiple ppp options sets in the
> > > same file unless the option requirements are identicle.  ...  I
> > > personally have three different connection requirements and use dunc/dppp
> > > to manage them.
> > 
> > It should be possible to handle this with a seperate provider file for each
> > isp (pon would need to be revised, or the user told to type 'pppd call
> > <isp>').
>      If the object is to lead a new user through a simple ppp
> configuration from the base install script, I question whether it is
> worthwhile making it handle multiple connections.  The user who
> requires multiple configurations is probably sophisticated enough to
> handle it himself. 

The object is to have a ppp setup utility that can set up
ppp for any arbitrary user.  Having one tool for novices and
different tools for varying intermediate levels and yet even
more tools for experts was not the objective.  Who the heck
really wants to go through setting up ppp with vi anyway?
And what does the need to have more than one connection have
to do with the level of _technical_ sophistication of the
user?  These were definitely not on the objective list when
I wrote this.

> > But most people are their own sysadmins.  I agree that dialing out should
> > not require root, but initial configuration of ppp is as much system
> > administration as is setting up an ethernet connection.
> > 
> > > I don't think I'd want my users accidentally mucking around on their
> > > system as root -- especially if they're connecting from home!  The last
> > > thing I need to do is start making house calls.
>      I believe all, or almost all, networks have Internet connectivity
> and mail systems that have been set up by the sysadmin, so users on
> such systems shouldn't have to configure ppp.  This tool is aimed at

What does setting up a mail system have to do with someone
setting up their client ppp connection?  What makes you
think that a setup tool can afford to make any kind of
assumptions about the machine or environment anyway?  This
was supposed to be as generally useful to as many people as
possible.  It was originally suppose to support slip and
diald as well, but I never had the chance to get that part
developed.  The next version was to add these as (or similar
functionality for diald) if I got to it, but that would have
been another total rewrite in perl.  Of course, John may be
more comfortable with these elements and add them.

> the new user who is migrating from DOS/Windows, and has one box with
> one or two users.

I do this sort of thing for a living (kind of) and my users
have dialup accounts for home, work, market data, and even
sometimes private shopping networks.  They currently do this
on win95 themselves (multiple connections support is built
in).  What exactly is your point here?
And why is it that you decided to limit the target audience
all of a sudden?  I wonder if Linus Torvalds would rather
click a few buttons and dialup or sift through config file
after config file with emacs.  I'd rather click a few
buttons.  The object is (almost) never to get the config
files setup but to just get connected. Getting the config
files setup is unfortunately a prerequisite.  The "aim" of
dunc was to help simplify this so that people could more
easily get on with the business of being connected (which is
the point afterall.)

Dont get me wrong, I think the discussion is always useful,
but stepping in now and redefining the objective of almost 2
years ago isn't entirely constructive.  It wouldn't require
taking over dunc to create a new tool with a more limited
objective.  I don't think that's what John's after though.



"Until we extend the circle of our compassion to all living 
things, we will not ourselves find peace" -Albert Schweitzer

Richard G. Roberto

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