Re: Censorship in Debian
On 05.01.19 02:20, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Another action: people treating you poorly in ways over which they
> have personal discretion, such as refusing to work with you, calling
> you rude names, attacking you in public, and so forth, because of
> what you say or publish. We'll call that action Dandelion.
>
> Yet another action: people who were previously echoing your words or
> republishing your writing, potentially to a much larger audience,
> stop doing that because they disagree with your words in some way,
> but your original (possibly much more limited) publication venue is
> unaffected. We'll call that action Daisy.
The term "people" here is a bit confusing, so just to clarify: in
Dandelion, it refers to individuals acting on their own behalf.
In Daisy, if people-as-individuals who were previously echoing your
words stop doing so, then it's just another case of Dandelion to me.
In Daisy, it people-acting-on-behalf-of-the-community stop doing so,
then that's an official action to me.
> Debian is clearly not doing, nor is capable of doing, Clover. A
> whole lot of Dandelion happens all the time, and is probably
> unavoidable. One could argue that Debian is sort of officially doing
> Dandelion at the moment; personally, I don't think it is, but it's
> not 100% obvious> Debian clearly did Daisy. We can all agree on
> that.
I believe so.
> There's no point in arguing about Clover, because that's not
> happening. The primary argument we're having is over when Daisy is
> and isn't appropriate.
Exactly!
> I don't think changing the labels changes the core disagreement,
> which is that some people want to have a far higher bar for Daisy
> than other people.
I think labeling it properly (as you did with Clover, Dandelion, Daisy)
is necessary for the debate on where to set the bar for the community.
I don't see how an agreement could be reached otherwise. Do flowers have
blossoms? Are these blossoms yellow or white? You can only answer those
questions when you know whether you are discussing Clovers, Dandelions,
or Daisies.
Was it an official action? If yes, then (I believe) we should have rules
and procedures for this. If it wasn't an official action, then we're
back at Dandelion, people-as-individuals.
--
Christian Kastner
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