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Re: Trusted Organisation status for DebConf15's legal entity

also sprach Andreas Barth <aba@ayous.org> [2014-04-27 01:09 +0200]:
> (For this reason, after some more thinking I wouldn't recommend to
> name it "Debconf15 e.V", but rather "Debconf Deutschland e.V.".)

Yes, this was my intention: design it as a throw-away, but without
stating so. And of course this leaves open the possibility to reuse
the Verein. Yes, there's also something to be said about closing it
and starting anew post-DC15. At least we'll be able to reuse much of
the legalese.

> If you get money where you provide some value for (and sponsorship
> might fall into that category, if e.g. logos are shown somewhere),
> then this money is VAT-taxable (unless one of the exceptions of
> the Umsatzsteuergesetz is applicable) if it is more than a certain
> limit, and the amount of money debconf is using is well above that
> limit.

§ 4 Abs. 22 röm. a) UStG is what I am aiming for:

  Von den unter § 1 Abs. 1 Nr. 1 fallenden Umsätzen sind steuerfrei:
  22. a) die Vorträge, Kurse und anderen Veranstaltungen
      wissenschaftlicher oder belehrender Art, die […] von
      Einrichtungen, die gemeinnützigen Zwecken […] dienen,
      durchgeführt werden, wenn die Einnahmen überwiegend zur
      Deckung der Kosten verwendet werden,

> Additionable it could save money to be VAT-taxable because it
> might be that you need to pay less VAT than you could substract
> from the goods you buy.

As I've stated early on (and it's part of the HD contract term
sheet), the youth hostel does not expose sales tax to the client
("MwSt wird nicht ausgewiesen"), so we could not subtract it.
Therefore, unless we want to pay 107% or 119% of the negotiated
prices for room & board, we really need to get tax exemption status
and we need to aim for § 4 Abs 22 röm. a).

> All of that is a bit more complex (and legally binding for
> a couple of years) than a normal TO would need, and also needs
> binding answers from the tax authorities before.

Too bad we spent the last two weeks discussing, but of course it was
naïve to assume this wouldn't happen. It's not bikeshedding in that
the issues discussed were unimportant — and we did manage to spot
some problems and make some important changes in that time — but it
does also illustrate that the Debian consensus-driven
decision-making process is not suitable when time's ticking.

Future teams may want to get an earlier start on the legal entity,
ideally right after the bid decision. In fact, it should probably
become part of the bid so we don't lose time afterwards when
contracts are ready to be signed.

My plan now is that if we found the association next weekend, then
we approach the tax authorities and wait for their verdict; only
then do we register the Verein and only then do we sign a contract.
I sincerely hope that HD will play along.

 .''`.   martin f. krafft <madduck@d.o>      Related projects:
: :'  :  proud Debian developer               http://debiansystem.info
`. `'`   http://people.debian.org/~madduck    http://vcs-pkg.org
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
"in all unimportant matters, style, not sincerity, is the essential.
 in all important matters, style, not sincerity, is the essential."
                                                        -- oscar wilde

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