Re: Dealing with ITS abuse
On Thursday, April 11, 2013 23:49:18, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> Hi Chris,
> > On Saturday, April 06, 2013 19:55:08, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> > > Hi Chris,
> > > thanks for being faithful to our project and bringing up this topic
> > > :-S
> > >
> > > Chris Knadle wrote:
> > > > From the point of view of the bug reporter, the message the DD
> > > > has sent
> > > >
> > > > (whether intended or not) is "I'm not even going to dignify this
> > > > with a response. *click* " It's not /only/ this rudeness that's
> > > > the problem, though; the bug reporter has now been handed a puzzle
> > > > of "convice the expert", where the expert needed to be convicned
> > > > seemingly isn't willing to spend any effort in communicating, but
> > > > the bug reporter does. This kind of thing therefore promotes
> > > > either conflict or the bug reporter walking away in disgust,
> > > > /either/ result of which is detrimental. I thus personally
> > > > consider this to be the first step into "the path of the Dark
> > > > Side".
> > > >
> > > > If we could come up with a reasonable way of handling this
> > > > particular problem, it would be greatly appreciated. Do you think
> > > > emailing email@example.com is a good way of dealing with this?
> > >
> > > It's not a /good/ way in absolute terms, but it's pretty much the only
> > > way for now, so I guess it's currently the best way (see
> > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2011/11/msg00030.html ).
> > Uh... I don't understand. The above suggestions avoiding private email
> > aliases; I'm not sure I understand where this fits the "rudeness issues"
> > I've had in the BTS -- the bug reports where it happened are public.
> > Maybe you can give me a better idea what you're trying to refer to. ;-)
> I'm not sure I understand what you're not sure to understand... but I'll
> try to rephrase.
> You were asking whether contacting firstname.lastname@example.org is a good way
> of dealing with ITS abuse. Officially, reporting such abuse currently
> has to be done that way. As there is a single way, it's (relatively) as
> much a good way of dealing with problems as a bad way.
> In absolute terms, contacting email@example.com is not a good way of
> dealing with any problem, as firstname.lastname@example.org is - as indicated in
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2011/11/msg00030.html - a
> private email alias, with little chance of solving the issue. If that
> doesn't work, you can escalate the issue to project leadership as a last
> resort... but you'll also hit a private email alias there.
Emailing anyone privately leads down the path of "privatization". [I've
already been down this road.] As such I think it might be better to publicly
CC leadership, to invite public comment rather than private conversation,
because private conversation cannot address the public problem.
What I really want in this "game" is a "penalty flag: unnecessary roughness"
called by the referee so that there can be a /measured response/ to the
problem. Right now Debian doesn't seem to have penalty flags or even a
referee, and instead the roughness has to be bad enough that the linesmen step
in and eject the player for all time.
This is unacceptable.
> I entirely agree that the solution should be public, but that doesn't
> mean there will be a public solution. Having any solution would already
> be more than I expect.
That's exactly why we're openly discussing it.