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Re: (Debian's Two Choices) The influx of women and the outflux of men. The end of debian as a distro and it's emergance as a women's rights pulpit.

Some people are "neatly centered" between the beliefs
of Stalin and Mao, this doesn not make their beliefs
right nor does it make their beliefs good for debian,
nor should men who do not agree with those "neatly
centered" beliefs be booted out of the project or
censored as is happening in the current, increasingly
man-unfriendly, debian.

I have both identified specific occurances (the
booting of Johnathan in-part because he is against
debian-women (this was the first reason given in a
small multi part list, another being complaining about
the food in a resturant)) and on-going trends (less
packagers, less developers, packages being dropped do
to lack of packager support, less men willing to
devote their free time to debian).

Men should NOT be punished because of their beliefs. 
Debian was a techincal project centered around free
software, not any eglitarian humanist belief system,
it was not the UN, it was not the EU, it was a free
software project.
Debian was not big sister, now the pressure of
debian-women has pushed it in that direction.

MJ Ray: You are opposed to the freedom of men, you are
a feminist... a male feminist (some people hate their
fellow man, it is unfortunate).

Debian is no longer a purely technical project; it is
a sociological project with an increasingly, with each
year that groups such as debian-women are allowed to
exist within debian, thin technical coating (as more
men leave the less techincal expertise debian has, and
you aren't going to replace them with women as there
are far less women intrersted in technical fields and
willing to work for free).

Debian is trading a bird in the hand for two birds in
the bush, and those birds in the bush are not
interested in cutting code or doing technical work.

--- MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:

> [debian-women and most named people trimmed.  I
> believe it's
>  not wanted there.]
> Debian women terminate <debianwomengoaway@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > MJ Ray: Just because a man disagrees with your
> > feminist women revering world view does not mean
> he is
> > raising his objection just to blindly anger
> people.
> > 
> > Debian has two choices: [...]
> I claim neither of the choices are acceptable:
> debian
> should not expel anyone just for their beliefs, but
> it
> should punish unacceptable actions in the project.
> As I understand it, debian-women's main actions aim
> to make the
> project more welcoming for women, not less welcoming
> for men.
> Can debianwomengoaway actually list what
> unacceptable actions
> happened and what would be acceptable corrections
> for them?
> Please, try to be specific, clear, give references
> and avoid
> over-long sentences.  Then delegates and developers
> can consider
> how to respond to them.  These current posts are
> essentially
> statements of views which no-one will do anything
> about,
> because they don't ask for any reasonable action.
> The "troll" calls me a "feminist", while the
> "feminists" called
> me a "troll" in the past, so I conclude I'm neatly
> centre-ground.
> FWIW, I am not a feminist.  I am as unhappy with
> feminists
> in debian as I am with masculinists like
> "debianwomengoaway".
> No project resources at all should be closed on the
> basis of
> gender, either way.  As far as I know, I'm no
> humanist neither,
> although I think the OP's bizarre views don't make
> him a waste
> of flesh or worthy of violent attack.
> The OP may be interested to know that past comments
> suggest
> that his supporters could request a debian-men
> mailing list,
> a men website and other analagous resources to
> counter-act
> debian-women and they would be granted.  I don't
> think it's a
> good idea, but that's the current situation, as far
> as I know.
> Hope that helps,
> -- 
> MJR/slef
> Laux nur mia opinio: vidu
> http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
> Bv sekvu
> http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

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