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Re: Debian, lists and discrimination

On 2004-08-06 19:46:17 +0100 Daniel Ruoso <daniel@ruoso.com> wrote:

It seems that you are not aware that male or female is not a sex matter,
but a gender matter (which is very much different). We are not talking
about sex, we are talking about equal rights to males and females.
(do you really believe that everybody have the same opportunities?)

No, we don't all have the same opportunities, but that's the randomness of life for you. I didn't get the opportunity to gather my own sand from Alum Bay when I visited it, but I don't think that's really the point you are trying to make.

I don't care whether we call this sex, gender, female/male-ness or whatever you want, as long as we both understand the idea. Call debian-women genderist instead, if it pleases you, as long as you see the problem of discriminating on the basis of some attribute we can't change. If (as I have seen claimed), debian is disproportionate because we are unfriendly (and this could be tested, couldn't it?), let's work on developing friendliness, not genderist women-attraction measures. I have encountered unfriendly women, so I'm sure they exist.

At least men are still allowed to post on debian-women.
...only if it is about "discussion or collaboration involving women".
That is what defines the TOPIC of the list. Usually, OFF-TOPIC messages
are not welcome.

I say that the topic discriminates against men. Further, I say that it contradicts the stated aims of debian-women from its FAQ about segregation on http://cytosine.org/~helix/dw/faqs/ "We're not segregated. Debian Women is a subgroup of Debian that allows anyone to join in and help."

There's no equivalent list for men because no one has requested it.
So there is no barrier to any group? Would a listmaster create debian-christian-middleclass-middleage-hetero-white-males only for discussion or collaboration involving them, even if it has unpleasant consequences?
Now that is *negative* discrimination...

Yes, positive discrimination for one of two classes implies negative discrimination against the other, whether for women or for christian middle-class middle-age heterosexual white males.

What you didn't understand is that Debian is more than a group of
techical people doing technical things... We fight for freedom in
software, why wouldn't we fight for freedom for people?

I don't say you shouldn't, but I don't think a fight for freedom should use the practice it claims to want to stop. Fight for freedom for people by inclusion.

If you read carefully Amaya's website, you'll see that the site only
representes amaya's point of view. So, amaya is free to say whatever she


Many times surveys were made to debian developers, what's wrong with
this one?

The results seem to be selectively reported. Amaya, please publish the full returns, like you wrote you would.

MJR/slef    My Opinion Only and not of any group I know
http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ for creative copyleft computing
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