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Re: which serious bugs exactly? (Re: if you care about debian on powerpc, please react ...)

On Sat, Nov 25, 2006 at 09:07:02PM +0100, Holger Levsen wrote:
> Hi,


Thank you for this, why could you not at least leave me alone ? 

And please tell me again, what have you done for powerpc lately ? Or for
example during the month of marsch when i "resigned" and wished frans good
luck in handling the situation ? 

Anyway, i know you now.

> summary for powerpc-users: _if_ you have serious problems with debian-powerpc 
> working on your machine(s), please report them to the bug tracking system, so 
> we can fix them. If you don't know how (or need a bit help), I'm glad to help 
> on this. http://bugs.debian.org is a good starting point :)
> I'm not interesting in this thread. Read the full mail to see why. 
> On Wednesday 22 November 2006 18:00, Sven Luther wrote:
> > As some of you may have noticed, there is an ugly dispute going on between
> > some few d-i team members (Frans Pop and Joey Hess mostly, but Geert and
> > Holger also seem to support them), and which result in a over 6 month old
> > dispute 
> Sven, the dispute is much older. I'm too lazy to dig it up now, but I would 

Ah, yes ? 

> say it's about and at least 18-24 month old (but you only see your svn-commit 
> rights and think it started when they where removed. The dispute did not 

No, i see it starting when vorlon published the vancouver document. Also, when
i worked a full week full time to get the 2.4.27 powerpc kernels in shape, and
was bashed thrice in a row by steve, colin and joeyh, and when joeyh accused
me of delaying single-handledly the release a full week for a very minor typo.

I see it also starting, when i advocated the common kernel, and was bashed for
proposing this, this was 18 months ago or so. 

> start when they where removed, this was only one climax.). And you're 
> behaviour of claiming to let it rest and then writing tens (!) of mails to 
> various lists certainly didn't help at all to let the issue settle.

Show me a single sign of Frans and co where they respond positively to my
tentative of conciliation ? Sorry, but FUCK YOU, is hardly a way to solve

Now, take those tens of mails you mention, and look back, each of these cases
is triggered by an event where frans bashes me in public, or uses his
technical power to hurt me.

> For the sake of the users of the powerpc-port I'll quote here what I replied 
> to your mail to debian-release on this wednesday about the same issue. 

I saw now such thing, assuredly you forgot to CC me, right ? 

> And, I will not participate in this topic/thread anymore, as I seriously think 
> this is a waste of time and I prefer to instead work on debian, including 
> debian powerpc. And I have to admit, that in the last two or three month I 

Please show me what you have done for debian on powerpc ? when was your last
contribution, and how regular where they ? 

> often refrained from working on debian-ppc, because you, Sven, have too often 
> killed my motivation to work on it. (I work mostly (but not completly on 
> debian-edu/ppc now...)

Yeah, this is your accusation. But still, frans and you and others have also
killed my motivation, but i still continue to work on debian, because i care
for the users. When was your last contribution ?

> So please stop this. Either fork d-i (or debian/ppc) or _work_ on patches and 
> bugreports instead of wasting our time trying to "solve" this situation, 
> which according to you can only be "solved" by giving you svn-commit-rights 
> back, which doesn't work, if the people maintaining the debian-installer 
> doesn't want to work with you. Debian is a volunteer project and you cannot 
> force people to work with you, no matter what.

Please go ahead, and count my patches and commits. I number 20-30 of them
since june. What have you done in this whole last year for powerpc ? 

> If you would have worked (as I suggested to you in June (or July?) this year) 

And i did so.

> on patches and bugreports and not continuesly ranted and insulted the people 
> who cannot work with you (which you have done on >5 lists and by writing 

Who, as you, chose to not work with me.

> (estimated) 40% of all mails in those threads), because you rant and insult 
> so much, and would have the commit right issue rested, the situation would 
> have calmed down by now. Maybe not enough to get the commit rights (now), but 
> as you haven't done this, *you* have worsen the chances to get them back 
> sooner than later.

No, because there was never a single explicacion of what was asked of me, my
commit right was removed, and i discovered about it later when trying to
submit patches. I was never told why, i was never given a chance to fix it,

> My mail to debian-release on thursday:
> ---- begin ----
> On Wednesday 22 November 2006 18:22, Sven Luther wrote:
> > I know that you maybe defavorably biased against me in the petty dispute
> > between me and frans and joeyh some unnamed others, over the powerpc port
> > of d-i.
> >
> > But, we are nearing the release, and the actions of Frans are clearly
> > endangering the quality of the d-i powerpc port, and there is a decision to
> > take about this issue, and i guess the decision is yours to make.
> I'm sad you don't stick to your promise which you wrote down on at 
> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/FransPopAndOthersVs.SvenLutherIssue/ 
> etc.:

Since then, my upload of the fan control patch was reverted without mention,
after it had rested for a full 29 days in the BTS without a single comment.

> "I propose we meet at fosdem, and discuss the dispute then. Until then, i will 
> consider that the dispute is solved and relations have normalized, and will 
> continue to work through the BTS for patches and stuff. I will try to not go
> balistic if you reply provocatively, but i can't promise i will always be able
> to do so, just as you probably cannot promise me you will never be provocative
> again. In any case, until fosdem, there is ample time to reflect on this
> issue, but i hope you will find that restoring the commit access by then will
> be acceptable.
> So, unless during that face to face meeting something goes very wrong, i
> consider the case closed, and wish you good luck with your upcoming trip."

Well, given how things currently stand, i fear a face to face meeting will be
more damaging than anything else.

> >   1) We drop support for powerpc for etch.
> Why exactly?

Because there is no support in d-i for still being sold powerpc hardware.

> On http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/EtchRC1Prep I only see rather minor 
> issues regardings powerpc (btw, I think that declaring which subarchs are 
> broken would help. But the powerpc subarch with the biggest userbase, 
> newworld, works just fine (IMEs).)

I remember some criteria of being still able to buy new hardware. Or didn't
you notice that apple switched to intel ? 

> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?maint=debian-boot@lists.debian.org;include=powerpc 
> lists 4 important bugs, but no serious ones.

currently shiping powerpc hardware are :

  IBM pseries : not really supported, patch sitting without comment since
  months, early work lost because of svn commit conflicts.

  Genesi Efika : upcoming product, patches not ready for 2.6.18, will not be
  supported in etch.

  Mercury 1U G5 servers : never saw one of those, the linux/powerpc upstream
  guys have no idea how it works, may work identical to IBM pseries, or not,
  but in any case, i wouldn't mention them as supported.

  Sony PS3 : no hardware available to us, not supported right now.

  assorted powerpc embededed hardware: not supported by debian as is.

> And http://wiki.debian.org/powerpcEtchReleaseRecertification lists six 
> d-developers, and not only you, Sven.

yeah, right.

> And on http://release.debian.org/etch_arch_qualify.html powerpc is one of the 
> five archs (out of 12) which only "green" fields.

Yeah, but are they really honest ones. The d-i situation is preocuping, thanks
to Frans and co.

> So I would say, the powerpc-port is in a pretty good shape overall. If you 
> have other indications, please file them with the appropriate severity in the 
> BTS or stop spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt. Thanks.

No currently selling powerpc hardware will have first class support in


Sven Luther

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