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Re: New Proposal Policy (was Re: Debian and FHS)

>>"Chris" == Chris Waters <xtifr@dsp.net> writes:

 Chris> Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@debian.org> writes:
 >> >>"Juergen" == Juergen A Erhard <jae@ilk.de> writes:

 >> I guess we goofed. From this point on, I'll try to be more
 >> careful about checking peoples names against the ldap database.

 Chris> Hmm, I was certainly under the impression that anyone could make a
 Chris> formal proposal.  If that's not the case, then I hereby propose that
 Chris> we *make* it the case.  After all, if it's a bad proposal, then no
 Chris> developers will second it (and I recommend that we continue to limit
 Chris> seconds to developers only).  And if it's a good proposal, what matter
 Chris> the source?

        If the idea is good, why would it not be sponsored? I fail to
 see not allowing non-developers into the policy machinery as being
 closed minded. 

        For gods sake, it is not as if we have shortage of
 ideas. There are good ideas in the BTS that are languishing because
 no one has the energy to think them through. Adding to the flood is
 not any way to increase the quality of the policy manual.

        If you think we are missing good ideas, well, first do
 something to remove the massive backlog of ideas that have already
 been proposed. 

        And people, even if you are not developers, if you have an
 idea that is being given short shrift on the list, email me
 personally. I promise not to take your social skills into account,
 and I shall co-sponsor the proposal for you -- if you convince me of
 the technical merits.

        I have a feeling that this seconds process is also mildly
 broken -- I warrant you, it seems to me that any proposal, no
 matter what, shall rapidly gain seconds. I don't know how to fix this
 -- or even if my feeling is warranted.

        But I would indeed raise the bar on proposals by not opening
 it out to the whole wide world (which it is otherwise, seeing that
 the list and the BTS is open).

 Chris> I think that if we want to make the system (and policy) as good as it
 Chris> can be, we need to accept input from as many sources as possible.

        And I would prefer some quality control. Yes, being a Debian
 maintainer is not a metric of proficeincy -- but it does mean
 that that person has committed time and effort to the project, and
 has agreed to adhere to the contract that Debian makes to the

 Chris> Geeks tend to be shy and anti-social.  If we make it difficult
 Chris> to propose a change/improvement to policy -- in particular, if

        Anyone can post on this list. 

 Chris> we require someone with the *social skills* to find a sponsor

        I think that is mildly insulting. I think I can glean a idea
 with technical merit despite the (lack of) social skills of the

 Chris> -- we increase the chances that good suggestions will simply
 Chris> *never appear*!

        I think doing otherwise also increases the chances of good
 ideas being lost in the crowd.

 Chris> Anyone can file a bug report against any package.  Debian
 Chris> policy is a package.  Are we to ignore valid bug reports
 Chris> against this one package simply because the source of the
 Chris> report doesn't want to be a full time member of the project?

        Did I say that? No

        Any one can file a bug. But any bug is not a policy proposal
(though the policy proposals use the BTS to record their state)

 Chris> Unless people strongly object to this idea, I'll make it a formal
 Chris> proposal.  (Now that I realize that it's *not* current
 Chris> policy.)

        I think you need to make a stronger case. Are we missing ideas
 here? As you said, anyone can submit a bug. People can start threads
 here. There are plenty of avenues open for people to submit ideas. 

        Tell me how you shall deal with the massivbe backlog of half
 baked proposals that I thik are inevitable, and you may have
 something going.

 There is a good deal of solemn cant about the common interests of
 capital and labour.  As matters stand, their only common interest is
 that of cutting each other's throat. Brooks Atkinson, "Once Around
 the Sun"
Manoj Srivastava   <srivasta@debian.org>  <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

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