Re: Status of uw-prism packaging for Debian
Hi Andreas,
See below, comments further on SLIK and Prism.
On 07/31/2014 12:13 AM, Andreas Tille wrote:
Hi Ira,
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 10:08:27PM -0700, Ira Kalet wrote:
Thanks for the reference to the policy and other documents. I now
have a pretty good sense of what is involved.
1. I checked a little further because there are other Common Lisp
code packages in Debian, and I have some installed. It seems that
they use the Common Lisp Controller and asdf (packages
common-lisp-controller and cl-asdf). I have these installed. I
already wrote asdf code for SLIK and can probably do the same for
Prism. There is another package, dh-lisp, that claims to help
create Common Lisp based packages. I am also reading the Common
Lisp in Debian manual. It is very helpful but insufficient.
I think the SLIK library should be a separate package, and the prism
package can then depend on it. Since SLIK is very small (only about
10K lines of code in 25 or so files, it would be more manageable.
Also it is a library rather than a runnable program. The full prism
program is an extra layer of complexity.
So, obviously, other Debian packages are written in Common Lisp, and
I will take a look to see how they are organized. The one that
would be the most like Prism is the Portable Allegroserve package,
cl-aserve. I'll take a look at that. However, I do not have the
resources that the Lisp hackers at Franz, Inc. do.
While beeing totally Lisp illiterate myself this plan sounds somehow
sensible.
Right, so I will plan on getting SLIK into shape to be a Debian package.
It is not medical, it does not depend on any particular Lisp system,
just depends on clx, which is already available. There should be no
restrictions on use or redistribution of SLIK, so probably it could go
into the main area. I will get in touch directly with the maintainers
of the Common Lisp Controller and dh-lisp packages to find out what I
will need to do.
2. ...
I really wish you all the best for your health. As a very personal
opinion I could imagine that picking some task which sounds interesting
to you and keeps you focussed on something you like could give you some
hope. We have some prominent examples inside Debian. BTW, if you
write about health issues: The Debian Med mailing list is published
in a searchable web archive for everybody.
Thanks for the note. My health status is not secret, but no need to
bother people about it if they don't need to know. Your advice is very
kind and well taken. I am retired, but have a list of projects
including two books, one a personal memoir and the other on advanced
Lisp programming. I also am still playing ice hockey as my web site
notes. I have a grant application for a research project pending at the
US NIH. I just am a little reluctant to promise any extended support
for something when I may not be able to meet that promise.
3. Finally, there is still the issue of what the US FDA might say
about distribution within the US, as software products that do what
Prism does are considered medical devices and cannot be distributed
without FDA 510K premarket approval, an onerous process to be sure.
It does not matter that no money is involved. What do you do about
other debian-med packages? Might any of them be considered a
medical device?
I'm not aware that we have a comparable case. From my admittedly naive
point of view distribution wise it does not matter whether the program
is distributed from your web site or in addition from the Debian
mirrors. There was a time when Debian was maintaining a specific non-US
archive containing crypto stuff that was covered by some US export law
but this was a long time ago and all crypto software is included in
Debian. However, if you want to know for sure I might forward this
question to the debian-legal list.
By all means, please check with any legal resources you might have. My
UW web site is source only, and in order for anyone to use the code,
they have to learn Lisp, and understand Prism well enough to build a
running system. I believe this takes it out of the realm of "product".
A package that can be installed by just clicking, that results in a
complete runnable radiation therapy planning system might be considered
by the FDA a real "product". I don't really know for sure.
Also there is a disclaimer on my web site that might not satisfy the
Debian policy requirements that I read. It says that the software is
provided for research and study. The license does not legally restrict
its use in a clinical application, though other such systems, such as
PLUNC from Univ. of North Carolina do include such restrictions in their
license agreement. Maybe it could just go into the non-free area.
Anyway, first things first. I will work on SLIK, then Prism.
Sorry for the long winded email.
All the best to you
Andreas.
And best to you as well,
Ira
--
Ira J. Kalet, Ph.D., FACMI
Professor Emeritus, Radiation Oncology
Professor Emeritus, Biomedical Informatics and Medical Education
Email: ikalet@uw.edu
Web: http://faculty.washington.edu/ikalet/
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