*To*: Debian Legal <debian-legal@lists.debian.org>*Subject*: Re: Documentation and Sarge's Release Critical Policy*From*: Adam Warner <lists@consulting.net.nz>*Date*: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:12:56 +1200*Message-id*: <1061356376.1214.178.camel@work.consulting.net.nz>*In-reply-to*: <853.1061348419@mixed>*References*: <1061286720.1187.139.camel@note.macrology.co.nz> <20030819.201004.74754229.wlandry@ucsd.edu> <6644.1061341925@mixed> <1061347115.1209.54.camel@work.consulting.net.nz> <853.1061348419@mixed>

On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 15:00, Peter S Galbraith wrote: > > I believe this comment is a mischaracterisation of the consensus that > > has developed on this list. Recently explained by Nathanael Nerode on > > the glibc mailing list: > > <http://lists.debian.org/debian-glibc/2003/debian-glibc-200308/msg00160.html> > > > > I in no way support any claims that clear majority agreement has not > > been reached. So in this respect sarge_rc_policy.txt should at least > > read: "This will become a requirement post-sarge." > > That post says: > > The people left who claim that we should allow GFDLed documents with > invariant sections into 'main' are... > > I would hope that the other problems with this license will be > sufficient to make it non-free even for docs without invariant > sections. Do we have a consensus on that? There is clearly consensus on "invariant sections" and the GNU FDL also describes a number of other items that are essentially invariant or must be combined. More generally I believe there is consensus that the GNU FDL is not a DFSG-free licence. The biggest problem we faced is that the FDL so aggressively discriminates against the endeavour of computer programming that we didn't even notice we were discussing a non-software licence. Debian distributes 100% free software (which includes associated documentation). Not any old stuff with a licence that stops it being a subset of software. > In the meantime, if there's consensus about invariant sections then I > don't see why they can't be moved to non-free before november. Oh, I see your reasoning. I was thinking of how difficult it may be to separate out the data from some of the packages and design ways to expunge non-DFSG documentation from the .orig.tar.gz files. Your idea is to just to move packages to non-free. > > > > > Given the aggressive (and endearingly optimistic) timetable of releasing > > > > > Sarge this December[0!] I support this pragmatic decision. > > > > > > > > Pragmatism is not the defining principle of the DFSG. > > > > > > With you 100%. > > > > It's a timing issue. Clear consensus has only occurred very recently. Do > > people want to see FTP uploads being rejected right this minute? The > > forthcoming release of Sarge gives everyone a clear and historical cut > > off date for implementing the consensus and gives archive maintainers a > > clear date for strictly enforcing policy. > > I'd rather we stick to our principles, but clearly there isn't a > consensus on that. That's a low blow. So what's your timeline for migration? Move Emacs into non-free today? The .orig.tar.gz files contain what we consider non-DFSG-free files, and .orig.tar.gz files in main and contrib are supposed to meet the DFSG. With a migration plan, Emacs _the program_ has a chance of staying in Debian. Regards, Adam emacs21_21.3.orig.tar.gz: etc/emacs.1:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 etc/emacstool.1:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 etc/etags.1:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 etc/gfdl.1:GFDL \- The GNU Free Documentation License etc/gfdl.1:of the GNU Free Documentation License from time to time. Such new etc/gfdl.1:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 info/emacs:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or info/emacs:Node: GNU Free Documentation License ... info/ccmode:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or ... info/cl:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or ... info/ediff:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or ... info/forms:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or ... info/gnus:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or ... info/info:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or ... info/message:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or ... info/mh-e:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or ... info/reftex:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or ... info/sc:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or ... info/vip:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or ... info/viper:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or ... info/widget:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or info/ada-mode:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or info/autotype:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or info/idlwave:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or info/idlwave:is included in the section entitled "GNU Free Documentation License" in info/eudc:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or info/eudc:is included in the section entitled "GNU Free Documentation License" in info/ebrowse:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or info/ebrowse:is included in the section entitled "GNU Free Documentation License" in info/pcl-cvs:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or info/woman:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or info/woman:is included in the section entitled "GNU Free Documentation License" in info/emacs-mime:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or info/emacs-mime:is included in the section entitled "GNU Free Documentation License" in info/eshell:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or info/eshell:is included in the section entitled "GNU Free Documentation License" in info/speedbar:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/ada-mode.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/ada-mode.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/autotype.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/autotype.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/cc-mode.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/cc-mode.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/cl.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/cl.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/doclicense.texi:@node GNU Free Documentation License, Intro, Copying, Top man/doclicense.texi:@appendix GNU Free Documentation License man/doclicense.texi:of the GNU Free Documentation License from time to time. Such new man/doclicense.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 man/ebrowse.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/ebrowse.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/ediff.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/ediff.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/emacs-mime.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/emacs-mime.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/emacs.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/emacs.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/emacs.texi:* GNU Free Documentation License:: The license for this documentation. man/emacs.texi:@node Copying, GNU Free Documentation License, Distrib, Top man/emacs.texi:@node Intro, Glossary, GNU Free Documentation License, Top man/eshell.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/eshell.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/eudc.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/eudc.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/forms.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/forms.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/gnu.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/gnus.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/gnus.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/gnus.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/idlwave.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/idlwave.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/info.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/info.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/message.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/message.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/mh-e.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/mh-e.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/pcl-cvs.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/pcl-cvs.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/reftex.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/reftex.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/sc.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/sc.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/speedbar.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/speedbar.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/vip.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/viper.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/widget.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/woman.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or man/woman.texi:under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or info/emacs:Invariant Sections being "The GNU Manifesto", "Distribution" and "GNU info/emacs-1:Invariant Sections being "The GNU Manifesto", "Distribution" and "GNU info/emacs-2:Invariant Sections being "The GNU Manifesto", "Distribution" and "GNU info/emacs-2: The "Invariant Sections" are certain Secondary Sections whose info/emacs-2: titles are designated, as being those of Invariant Sections, in info/emacs-2: G. Preserve in that license notice the full lists of Invariant info/emacs-2: L. Preserve all the Invariant Sections of the Document, info/emacs-2: conflict in title with any Invariant Section. info/emacs-2: designate some or all of these sections as invariant. To do this, info/emacs-2: add their titles to the list of Invariant Sections in the Modified info/emacs-2: all of the Invariant Sections of all of the original documents, info/emacs-2: unmodified, and list them all as Invariant Sections of your info/emacs-2: multiple identical Invariant Sections may be replaced with a single info/emacs-2: copy. If there are multiple Invariant Sections with the same name info/emacs-2: the list of Invariant Sections in the license notice of the info/emacs-2: 4. Replacing Invariant Sections with translations requires special info/emacs-2: translations of some or all Invariant Sections in addition to the info/emacs-2: original versions of these Invariant Sections. 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**Follow-Ups**:**Re: Documentation and Sarge's Release Critical Policy***From:*Walter Landry <wlandry@ucsd.edu>

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**References**:**Documentation and Sarge's Release Critical Policy***From:*Adam Warner <lists@consulting.net.nz>

**Re: Documentation and Sarge's Release Critical Policy***From:*Walter Landry <wlandry@ucsd.edu>

**Re: Documentation and Sarge's Release Critical Policy***From:*Peter S Galbraith <p.galbraith@globetrotter.net>

**Re: Documentation and Sarge's Release Critical Policy***From:*Adam Warner <lists@consulting.net.nz>

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