Re: Sound Not working on T61
Hello Cyril,
I think we agree.
Also, I prefer having a new user to use Debian/Testing rather
than not using Debian at all. (I guess you think the same way).
So even though upgrading to Testing is my "second best choice",
it's still on my best choices (I won't list my bad alternatives
to Debian here ;)
Franklin
--------
More rational behind Stable vs Testing and unstable :
It's all about providing a stable and supportable product to our
(new) users. Providing more feature is only useful if one have and
keep a stable product (stabe ~= useful).
You and I know what's the difference between Stable and Testing or
Unstable. A new Debian user wouldn't know the implication of such
choice. He/She may not want to spend time fixing small problem
introduced by a new software version... He/She may not be able to
fix such problems.
So I just wouldn't suggest new user to use anything but Stable, or at
least point him/her to useful resource so he/she understand the
consequence of such choice. I think I'll update a wikipage with this
thread ;)
On Fri, January 25, 2008 13:14, Cyril Jaquier wrote:
> Hi Franklin,
>
>> Keep in mind that using Testing or Unstable means :
>> - More hardware supported.
>> - Newer versions of software.
>> - **More bugs**.
>>
>> reminder: Before Debian/Stable is release, Debian goes through
>> a freeze period to *find* bugs *fix* bugs, update documentation, etc.
>>
>
> But what if MyPackage 1.0 in stable is broken (for me) but MyPackage 2.0
> in testing/unstable works perfectly? On desktop/laptop, I prefer using
> newer software with some bugs than older software (which have bugs
> anyway). I really don't want to use Gnome 2.14 when 2.22 will be out in
> a few months.
The "problem" with Testing and Unstable is that unless you are a master in
apt-pinning, you just get the whole Testing stuffs...
So at a given time you get the fairly stable gnome 2.22, but you also get
fast moving unstable packages which at that time make your system
unbootable for some users. (To be honest, this is rare on Debian/Testing,
but beeing but once every two year is too often : trust Murphy's law
"...Everything always happends at the worst time...").
Yes, Debian/Stable have serious bugs, but:
1. It has far less bugs than Testing and Unstable... which bugs are mostly
unknown yet !
2. The bugs are known, so people can provide known and tested workarounds.
3. As mentioned above, you won't suddenly get a new package-version which
introduce a new bug that prevent you from doing what is important for you
on that day.
Some sample bugs that may occur at anytime in Testing, which could be very
anoying (Despite the very good job of the Debian-Developper that maintain
the packages. reminder: they don't always actually developp the program
themselves):
- New bug in [your bootloader] prevent my computer from booting.
- New bug in [xorg] prevent the graphical interface from working.
- New kernel get installed, but you can't re-compile your
[wifi|modem|video|network] driver module.
I know that user of proprietary software are used to get such
incompatibilities, bugs, instablility problem introduced by new
version of software "A" versus software "B", but :
Debian/stable users just don't need to have such problem.
>> IMHO: I wouldn't advice anybody to use Debian/Testing or
>> Debian/Unstable, unless it's hardware really isn't supported...
>> Unless the user is willing to help Debian (developing, finding and/or
>> fixing bugs, etc.)
>>
>
> I wouldn't if it was a server or productive system. But on recent
> desktop/laptop, yes, I would recommend using "testing/unstable" because
> I think it will probably work better "out of the box".
That's right...
> I'm quite new to
> Debian (a few months) and directly installed unstable without much
> troubles. I would have probably faced more issues installing "stable"
> (sound problem, nVidia drivers, etc).
Your are probably quite comfortable with Unix/Linux already and/or have
friends, and/or have time, and/or like debugging, etc.
> But next time, I will warn the user that using
> "testing" or "unstable" is not recommended for everybody.
That would be nice for them.
Again, don't get me wrong. The most important is that they _use_ Debian
(any version).
Let's go keep helping (new) users.
Franklin
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