Re: Etch timeline is unrealistic because non-free firmware is NOT being dealt with
Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr> writes:
> On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 08:12:48PM -0400, Jim Crilly wrote:
>> On 08/08/06 04:49:33PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
>> > Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr> writes:
>> >
>> > > Well, it reads to me that we won't screw our users without second
>> > > thought like some here are proposing.
>> >
>> > In my opinion, we have been screwing our users for years by lying to
>> > them about whether their software was free. We would even say things
>> > like "hardware such-and-such is supportable with free software" and
>> > then ship them a non-free driver.
>> >
>>
>> I'm sure this has been suggested/covered before, but what's wrong with just
>> sticking those drivers in non-free and giving the user a choice during
>
> Well, i mentioned this already elsewhere in this thread, but there you go :
>
> 1) it is lot of work, and we (the kernel team) don't realy have the ressources
> for it.
Then stop doing 0 day uploads and fix the kernel. No matter how long
it takes. It is a release blocker, etch will wait for you.
If you need more help then ask for it (again). Debian-devel-anounce
would probably be a good idea.
> 2) there is currently no exhaustive list of affected drivers, there may even
> be some case of things like main processor micro-code affected.
Fix what you know and keep the rest in blissfull ignorance.
> 3) it demands works of part of debian outside the kernel team, particularly
> the d-i and eventually archive folk. The d-i have not been cooperative to
> this idea, and even mentioning it to them has resulted in a barrage of
> agresive bashing. But then maybe it was just because they don't like me and
> i dared to mention this all those months back. In any case, they have not
> fixed their side of it, and there appears to be no plan to do so, i was
> kicked out of the d-i project, and Frans threatened me if i even dared work
> on kernel/d-i based issues.
Sorry, that is just no reason to break the social contract and
dfsg. Yes you have to break D-I but they can fix it. They have been
told about it and are aware of it. Once it becomes virtualy required
they will fix it for sure. So far it isn't. As I said before, don't
wait for them to work ahead but force the issue on them. The gravity
of it requires it.
>> installation? Sure, it'll screw the users that won't have Internet access
>> during the installation, but as long as it's possible to make custom
>> installation discs that'll probably take care of itself.
>
> You can do a CD media which includes the non-free modules, you would have to
> build a non-free d-i image set anyway.
Which would be a task for the debian-cd team. Has anyone talk to them
about it?
> Friendly,
>
> Sven Luther
MfG
Goswin
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