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Re: Help needed on the Java policy



On Mon Jan 28 10:40, Michael Koch wrote:

> Personally I would just depend on some working runtime and on
> java(2)-runtime and then forward all bugs specific to some runtime to
> the affected runtime. This help to gets the runtimes fixed. Otherwise
> they will never get fixed because people dont know the problems.
> 
> In your case just depending on all the SUN JDK variants seems wrong. Do
> you know that the IBM variants dont work? How do you know that no
> (future) classpath-based runtime will work? What about icedtea?
> 

However, depending on java2-runtime ensures that anyone who already has
a free runtime installed, but not sun runtime (I would guess at quite a
large proportion of installs), will not get a working program by doing
`apt-get install program'. This seems to me to fundamentally the point
of the depends system and would seem to not meet policy 3.5:

   "Every package must specify the dependency information about other
   packages that are required for the first to work correctly."

or 7.2:

   "The Depends field should be used if the depended-on package is
   required for the depending package to provide a significant amount of
   functionality."

I would certainly file a serious bug on any package which did not work
after running `apt-get install package'.

Personally I would as the package maintainer test with any new runtime
which was uploaded to the archive and check whether it is supported.

While you could say that packages which provide java2-runtime and don't
work with programs which run under sun java 1.4 are themselves buggy, it
seems to me that since sun java has never been in main, what we are
really considering is compatibility with the free `1.4 compliant' VMs.

Were we to change to the virtual depends which were suggested elsewhere
of free-java and non-free-java, I would be happy depending on
non-free-java in this case, but again to be uploaded to contrib, only if
it worked with sun-java6 and sun-java5. Otherwise the (imo) invariant that
using only the Debian archives satisfying the build-depends results in a
working program is broken.

I have a package which compiles in the sid java-gcj-compat-dev, but only
runs with sun java (or, I assume, IBM, but since IBM isn't in the
archive, I don't think it's all that important to cater for). I've filed
bugs against gcj, which have been fixed upstream, and it will probably
work with icedtea, but until either of those reaches the archive, I only
depend on sun-java5 | sun-java6. I wouldn't depend on java2-runtime
unless it worked with all of the uploaded ones, or at least the
lowest-common-denominator, so that there was a reasonable expectation
that it would work for the rest.

Matt

-- 
Matthew Johnson

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