Re: apt and java
Dalibor Topic wrote:
Omry Yadan <omry_y <at> inter.net.il> writes:
aking Java and Debian closer is simple: use free runtimes, report bugs &
help us make them better than Sun's Java implementation is all respects that
you care about.
This approach is costing Debian users many good java programs which rely
on sun's jvm, or at least have never been tested on any other jvm.
How much does making 'good java programs' run on free runtimes 'cost' Debian
users? ;)
Now, that depends on the maturity of free runtimes.
both in terms of stability (which I don't know anything about yet), and
in terms of level of compatibility to sun's jvm's provided API's.
correct me if I am wrong, but you are concerned mainly about these issues:
Unfortunately, those are not my main concerns ;)
In fact, its quite fortunate, the way I see it.
I means this can be resolved in a peaceful manner ;).
not all users want to live on the bleeding edge.
If you don't like some aspects of the current free runtimes, you're most welcome
to help fix the problems you have found with them. If that's not good enough for
you, you can simply ignore them 'till they are ready for your needs. Noone is
forcing users to use them.
Its not about me.
its about all those poor souls out there, looking to install their
favorites free java programs, only to find that there is no trace of
them anywhere in apt.
I will find a way to run what I want, but for most users, who are
spoiled by the excellence of the apt system, it will be too hard.
You make it sound I like proposed to get the binary, hack the license
out of it, and re-distrebute it.
:)
I was under the impression that you were looking for ways to include Sun's code
into debian but to avoid Sun's license. I'm sorry if I somehow misinterpreted
you. ;)
So let me state again what I am after:
To provide users with the ability to install most java programs
seamlessly, today.
not when the programs have been modified (if needed) to work with the
free runtimes, or when the free runtimes are ready for them.
I want to achieve it in a way which still pushes the free runtimes
forward, and does not make them obsolete.
and of course, I want to achieve it in a way which is legal (from sun's
point of view), and that is compatible with the Debian spirit.
Thats the 'what'.
I will not discuss the how yet - I first want some approval for the what
part.
yes, sun does not officially support debian, but its pretty much
guarentied to work on a any system which is as Linux as the intersection
between the two Linux distrobutions sun does offecially support,
practicly meaning any Linux.
And you can back up that 'pretty much garanteed' claim?
clearly not, besides common sense, and some experience.
if the jre works for Red hat and Suse, I don't see why it will not work
for Debian.
and if it does not work for Redhat and Suse, thats sun's problem.
Debian and Redhat/Suse use the same kernel, and the jvm is mostly a
wrapper on top of the kernel, it should not do anything which is
distribution specific.
if sun's jvm has stability problems on Linux, I expect them to show up
regardless of the Linux distribution.
Searching for 'jvm crash debian' on google suggests otherwise, as does the
LD_ASSUME_KERNEL experience a lot of people had on ix86 with Sun's JVM. Googling
for 'mozilla java linux crash' gives me more than 80 000 hits. Pretty much
guaranteed to crash, I guess. ;)
Works fine for me.
I never said sun's java is perfect, but its not related to Linux.
check up "java crash windows", over 330,000 hits.
Omry.
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