Re: Debian Java outlook/ Re: kaffe orphaned?
Cris J. Holdorph writes:
> The debian-java list and Debian's interaction with Java has been
> the only thing that has come close to pushing me away from Debian
> entirely. For the last 2 full years, I've been doing Java
> development full time. Excluding a couple months, I've done all
> of that development on Solaris and Linux. *MY* vision is one where
> a java compiler and jvm are installed by a package system, and run
> as part of the "default path" (e.g., there is some kind of
> /usr/bin/java and /usr/bin/javac).
Well, are you sure this has anything to do with Debian?
I do not require servlets, I would be perfectly happy with
a JVM, full JNI support, and maybe just java.lang/net, and
still Java *on Linux* has been more of a problem than a solution.
Juergen will certainly correct me, but in my book, the biggest
problems so far were that we depend on JDK, and that, despite
the heroic efforts of the Blackdown team, JDK ports to Linux
have been troubled. Guessing from outside, the unstable state
of glibc, lack of thread safety in libdl, and even Linus'
decisions on kernel thread support had a say in this matter.
Even James Gosling rubbed that in recently, IIRC.
I admit that my use of JNI is on the fringe, but last time
I checked (the project is put on hold), I could not expect
any package maintainer to provide me with a JDK or free
implementation of Java that worked, and I had to hunt upstream.
> I understand how Sun's proprietary license is in very direct
> opposition to Debian policy. If kaffe or Japhar ever progress to
> something I can use, I will.
So will I. My chances might be better though (JNI is an integral
part and too boring for Sun to add more bloat, and Invocation is
a small enough pain to be fixed).
> I have used it for years. As far as doing Java stuff. I just
> install all my Java utilities/libraries by hand.
Honestly, if you intend to use cutting edge features in Java,
this seems your only choice. Are you saying that RedHat does
a better job here? What's wrong with Java is *Java*, i.e. is
Sun's doings and undoings. Neither Kaffe nor Japhar nor Debian
can be held responsible here, IMO. Aside from the persistent
link troubles with glibc and thread overhead, maybe.
> I mostly lurk on debian-java, because I have an interest in both.
> However, I have no immediate hope of those two ever meeting.
I guess the very day Sun stops kicking up the dust and Kaffe
or Japhar caught up with the moving target, you will get your
packaged convenience. Same for non-free JDK. With or w/o policy.
b.
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