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Re: [OT] translating via an intermediate language

[This is becoming off-topic on -i18n, so I suggest to take it in private. 
I've set M-F-T accordingly.]

В Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:25:48 +1030, Clytie Siddall написа:

>> "Open Source" is [...]
> Ouch. I got bitten on this topic some time ago. It certainly helps to  
> have it explained, but I think it's also important to realize that  
> the person using this term incorrectly, simply through ignorance, may  
> be extremely well-intentioned and not deliberately engaged in any  
> conspiracy to defeat the aims of free software. 

Of course, I completely agree.  Since "open source" people are far more
numerous than us and people generally feel uneasy when they talk about
freedom, this term has become more popular. Many people use it just
because it's what they heard, others hear from them and it just spreads.
We have to speak about freedom even louder than before, I just don't
understand why you consider this rude.

>> There are some free apps for MuckOS X
> Including not insulting someone's chosen operating system. 

Sorry, non-free software is a social problem and a disaster for humanity,
so I'll continue to express my disgust at every opportunity.

> I have chosen my operating system based on my knowledge, experience, and
> personal situation. It works best for me. I ask you to respect that.

I respect your right to choose not to value your freedom and I've never
insulted you because of that.  Drug addicts (users of non-free software)
are not the enemy, the enemy are the drugs and the drug dealers
(developers and distributors of non-free software).  The goal of the Free
Software Movement is to liberate everyone, including those that don't
realize that they're slaves and those that like to be slaves.

> Mike replied:
>>   I'd love to ( what I'd call) Open Source it ( and what you might
>> call free it )...  The idea has always tugged at me.  However, this is
>> how I feed my family ( in a manner of speaking).  I don't work for
>> anyone else.  And a large portion of what I do I release for free.  So
>> I depend on the people who are generous enough to buy the one version
>> of the one product that I do charge for. 

But you can still make money without denying users' freedom.  Free
software can be distributed for a fee (small or large) -- see
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.  There are numerous ways to
fund free software development; for example, you can deliver services to
the professional users that might need them.  You can also disable certain
features on proprietary platforms such as MuckOS X or Windoze, that's
perfectly legitimate (GCompris does that, f.i.).  There are thousands of
opportunities, and users like Clytie will continue to support you, I'm
sure.  You'll have the opportunity to become the person/company that
people will prefer for such kind of things, because you developed those
programs and are the person who is most familiar with their internals. 
That's called a free market -- if you're good and skilled enough, you
won't die of hunger.  Now it's a monopoly, a small one, but still a
monopoly. You are the lord, the master, and your users are slaves -- they
totally depend on you for everything.

> and I can vouch most firmly, and in any amount of detail required, for
> Mike's voluntary contributions to free-software localization. 

Development of non-free applications, fixing bugs and enhancing them is
not a contribution.

> He is one of the most capable and cooperative developers I have met, 

I have no doubt in Mike's skills and I'm absolutely sure that he's an
excellent programmer. 

> willing to put huge amounts of time into helping his users and
> understanding their needs. 

What you call "help" we call "digital slavery".  You cannot adapt the
program to your needs, you cannot study the code and reuse parts of it in
other programs, you cannot take a smart idea that occurred to him and
apply it yourself, you cannot fix bugs or improve the program -- basically,
you can't do anything.  That's not my understanding of "help". NVidious
are "helping" their users in a similar manner -- the last version of their
proprietary drivers fixes a lot of bugs, that's what I've read on some

> His support for i18n standards is cutting- edge (LFE and POE are
> the only PO editors to be based entirely on XLIFF, while allowing
> conversions of a range of free-software formats, although Pootle is
> nearly there now) and his skills in bridging the professional and
> voluntary translation worlds are increasingly important as more and more
> commercial funding and involvement comes into free-software development
> and i18n.

Here you describe some powerful features that these programs have.  I
prefer a crippled, a less powerful but free-as-in-freedom program.  I
won't sacrifice my fundamental rights as a computer user for the sake of
power and convenience -- and there are hordes of people like me.

> This guy really wants to help, and already does a lot to help. This is
> the sort of person we need. Let's be a little more welcoming, OK?

The only way to help is to release those programs as free software -- that
will be a gift and a benefit for the whole society.  Anything else is a
poison that we're not going swallow (although it might be OK for those
aligned with the Open Source campaign, they don't care much about freedom).

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