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Re: Third call for votes for the debian project leader election 2006

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Eddy Petrişor wrote:
> On 4/7/06, Micah Anderson <micah@debian.org> wrote:
>>>         I'm sorry. If we can't trust these people not to abuse upload
>>>  privileges, then I certainly do not want to see them get  a say in
>>>  deciding how we conduct the project's business.
>> By your argument, then the USA should give all its citizens access to
>> our nuclear arsenal, launch codes, etc. because we trust them to have
>> a say in deciding how the government is run.
> Hmm, I see, you see yourself as government. That would explain the
> dictatorial thinking as every governship tends to enslave the governed
> people.

This is a very surprising misunderstanding of what I wrote. I do not see
myself as government, I do not see Debian as government. Additionally, I
do not see where you are seeing dictatorial thinking in what I wrote, in
fact, I am starting to wonder how you can see so clearly what I am
thinking, perhaps your surveillance equipment has given you information
about my thoughts that I have not yet thought, but I will?

What is particularly suprising is that you are attacking me viciously,
when I believe that we have the same views on this subject, however you
have extrapolated meanings far beyond what I said through a process of
misunderstanding what I actually wrote, to think I am actually against you.

> You should think of yourself as a representative of the users instead
> of their master.

My message disagrees with the original poster's, which means that I
think that more people should get a say in how we conduct the project's
business, not less.

> I wonder where did this go "Our priorities are our users and free
> software". Probably, you forgot, but you are talking about Debian's
> users here in general and constant contributors here.
>>>         Eiether we trust them, in which case we should induct them in
>>>  as full members, or we don't, and in that case they do not get to
>>>  vote.
>> There are many people in my organization that I trust completely, who
>> do not have root on our boxes. They dont have root because of a number
>> of very obvious reasons that have nothing to do with trust in other
>> areas.
> Your point being? Please talk about Debian, not some organization of
> yours. The way you conduct your buisness does not affect Debian, or at
> least it shouldn't.

Please dont tell me what I can and cannot talk about, I thought you were
against dictatorial repression? If you want to talk about dictatorial,
repression, then we can talk business, but I am not talking about
business. I do not consider Debian to be a business, nor the
organizations I work with. I think its completely reasonable to speak of
other organizations in order to compare them with Debian. We dont live
in a vacuum.

My point is that someone who does work for debian does not need to have
the ability to upload in order to be part of debian in some sort of
'officially' enfranchised manner. I think it is completely sane to have
official debian people who do not have upload access.

>> Your rigid definition of trust = upload don't make sense to me. Yes,
>> you have to be trusted to be able to upload, but you dont have to have
>> upload abilities to be able to be trusted.
> Somehow, your argument is twisted. Nobody said that in order to trust
> someone, we should let him upload and see what will that person do,
> but quite the oposite was said - once you trust, upload should be
> fine, without abuses.

The point is that people do not need upload access to be officially part
of Debian. There is no reason for people to have upload access, unless
they are doing uploads. Tell me a reason someone should have upload
access if they are not doing uploads, and I will consider changing my mind.

The reason people give, time and again, for why we shouldn't bring
anyone else into Debian even if they have a long history of doing good
work for the organization that has nothing to do with uploading, is that
it would be a bad idea to give those people upload access. So, we dont
give them upload access, but we allow them into the organization. If at
some point they need upload access, they will have an easier chance of
obtaining it I would think.

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