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Re: Conference at debconf on i18n/l10n: ideas? suggestions?

On Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 12:37:24PM +0200, Martin Quinson wrote:
> I sadly won't be able to assist to this conf, and no member of the french
> translation team will be there, IIRC. Sad thing.

Too bad.

> You may want to check w.d.o/french/intl/french That's in french only, but I
> guess you should get the essence as latin-based native speaker. If not, I
> may consider translating this even if it's somehow very specific to our team.
Well, I can also speak french but, as a matter of fact, I'm already aware 
of it. Check w.d.o/intl/spanish/coordinacion.es.html, which I developed 
around the same scripts you used for french. Unfortunately, since only I 
was updating it, it has grown rather old (i.e. the information there is not 

> What I want you to get from this page is the organization we cam with to
> handle efficiently the translations in debian. That's based on a loosely
> split of the efforts in several sub-project (web, ddtp, po-debconf), and at
> the same time in several efforts (i18n, even if our problem are far more
> simple than asian people, translation, review). All this done with classical
> mail title, so that each people can do exactly what he wants in the project
> without spliting the ML.

Yes, I also think that's quite important. And I even included a similar 
approach at 
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ch-feedback.en.html (you will 
see that ITT - Intend to Translate is there too)

>  My personal opinion is that the french team is not anymore in an i18n
> process, thanks to our predecessor work, and becomes not even in a pure l10n
> process. Getting new translation is not my [main] goal anymore. I want to
> make sure that the stuff already translated is correct (review, very
> important since the written french language is hard even for native
> speakers) and uptodate (need of specific tools to detect when a translation
> gets outofdate, warn the assigned translator, and ask for an NMU to the
> other if it's not enough ;works for webpages, still to do for other materials).

Checking wether or not translations are up to date is a very important 
thing to be able to do automatically, that's why I developed the 
translation-check module for the Debian website (three years ago!) But I 
have not been able to dedicate time to make a similar thing for DDP stuff 
(and that's important and your team has a system that could be modified to 
be useful for w.d.o/doc)

> So, logistic issues are critical to me, stressing the need of a translation
> tag in the BTS or other kind of support from the PTS.

> But this is not all. Our team is also very concerned by making stuff
> translatable (I know, only a part of i18n). po-debconf was made by Denis,
> coordinator of our team, and some of us dedicace quite a large amount of
> time to let the packages using debconf moving to this system (along with
> portuguese people IIRC).

Yes, I've seen the patches.

> You may also say a word about l10n-check, a script developped in intern to
> catch to most common errors in the common format. po4a is also worst
> mentionning I guess (quite logical, that's my baby :). Its meant to ease the
> maintainance of documentation translation by using po files as main
> translation container. That way, when the original gets modified, the update
> is veeeery eased. And getting stats about translations is also a new feature.
> This project may not be mature enough for a wide use, but is definitivly
> promising in my mind.

Where are those tools? I don't see them in 
http://cvs.debian.org/webwml/french/international/french/?cvsroot=webwml or 
in the DDP CVS...

> Ho, and we do have a shared dictionnary under w.d.o/intl/french/dico. That's
> a simple set of wml macro allowing to make a kind of encyclopedia. English
> words are explained in details, and some possible translation are proposed,
> with the arguments pro and against each possibility. This is quite new and
> not that much words are documented, but it's growing quite quick.

That's nice. The Spanish team uses both a generic glossary (ORCA:
http://quark.fe.up.pt/cgi-bin/orca/glosario) and a Debian-specific one
(http://www.debian.org/intl/spanish/notas.es.html) but that's maintained by
hand. The nice thing about ORCA is that it provides an HTML frontend easy
to use but also generates dict files for use with 'dict'. You might want to
talk to Jaime Villate (also a DD) if you are interested in getting the 
source code for it.

> In future work, you can also mention i18ning the News.Debian.gz, since it's
> probable that in a near future, most debconf notes will be converted to that
> system. i18ning deb-log is also a chalenging issue, when it ever gets
> written. I think that po4a may help, but it still has to be proven.

Ok. Will mention it.

> That's it, dude. Have a nice trip.
> Bye, Mt.

Thanks for all the info.


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