Re: Conference at debconf on i18n/l10n: ideas? suggestions?
On Sat, Jul 12, 2003 at 06:47:42PM +0200, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 12:37:24PM +0200, Martin Quinson wrote:
> >
> > You may want to check w.d.o/french/intl/french That's in french only, but I
> > guess you should get the essence as latin-based native speaker. If not, I
> > may consider translating this even if it's somehow very specific to our team.
>
> Well, I can also speak french but, as a matter of fact, I'm already aware
> of it. Check w.d.o/intl/spanish/coordinacion.es.html, which I developed
> around the same scripts you used for french. Unfortunately, since only I
> was updating it, it has grown rather old (i.e. the information there is not
> up-to-date)
Err. We almost don't use the tool you copied over anymore. It requested to
maintain a DB manually, which was very painful. Only the DDP documents use
it now, because we have no other solution yet. But I guess you really should
recheck the french index page
(http://www.debian.org/intl/french/index.fr.html) and
http://www.de.debian.org/devel/website/translating for how we do for the
rest.
> > What I want you to get from this page is the organization we cam with to
> > handle efficiently the translations in debian. That's based on a loosely
> > split of the efforts in several sub-project (web, ddtp, po-debconf), and at
> > the same time in several efforts (i18n, even if our problem are far more
> > simple than asian people, translation, review). All this done with classical
> > mail title, so that each people can do exactly what he wants in the project
> > without spliting the ML.
>
> Yes, I also think that's quite important. And I even included a similar
> approach at
> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ch-feedback.en.html (you will
> see that ITT - Intend to Translate is there too)
Yes, I saw that. That's great. But it does not try to tackle with the
logistic involved in translation updates when they get out of date.
Check http://www.nongnu.org/po4a/#graphical_summary for what I mean.
> > My personal opinion is that the french team is not anymore in an i18n
> > process, thanks to our predecessor work, and becomes not even in a pure l10n
> > process. Getting new translation is not my [main] goal anymore. I want to
> > make sure that the stuff already translated is correct (review, very
> > important since the written french language is hard even for native
> > speakers) and uptodate (need of specific tools to detect when a translation
> > gets outofdate, warn the assigned translator, and ask for an NMU to the
> > other if it's not enough ;works for webpages, still to do for other materials).
>
> Checking wether or not translations are up to date is a very important
> thing to be able to do automatically, that's why I developed the
> translation-check module for the Debian website (three years ago!) But I
> have not been able to dedicate time to make a similar thing for DDP stuff
> (and that's important and your team has a system that could be modified to
> be useful for w.d.o/doc)
And this time, getting the cvs diff between the versions of the original
will not be enough because of their size, among other reasons. Again, I
think that po4a is what we need here.
> You may also say a word about l10n-check, a script developped in intern to
> > catch to most common errors in the common format. po4a is also worst
> > mentionning I guess (quite logical, that's my baby :). Its meant to ease the
> > maintainance of documentation translation by using po files as main
> > translation container. That way, when the original gets modified, the update
> > is veeeery eased. And getting stats about translations is also a new feature.
> > This project may not be mature enough for a wide use, but is definitivly
> > promising in my mind.
>
>
> Where are those tools? I don't see them in
> http://cvs.debian.org/webwml/french/international/french/?cvsroot=webwml or
> in the DDP CVS...
deb http://nico.bertol.free.fr/debian bertol/fr/
There are well documented with man pages, but there is no web pages for them.
> > Ho, and we do have a shared dictionnary under w.d.o/intl/french/dico. That's
> > a simple set of wml macro allowing to make a kind of encyclopedia. English
> > words are explained in details, and some possible translation are proposed,
> > with the arguments pro and against each possibility. This is quite new and
> > not that much words are documented, but it's growing quite quick.
>
> That's nice. The Spanish team uses both a generic glossary (ORCA:
> http://quark.fe.up.pt/cgi-bin/orca/glosario) and a Debian-specific one
> (http://www.debian.org/intl/spanish/notas.es.html) but that's maintained by
> hand. The nice thing about ORCA is that it provides an HTML frontend easy
> to use but also generates dict files for use with 'dict'. You might want to
> talk to Jaime Villate (also a DD) if you are interested in getting the
> source code for it.
I guess I'll take one hour to make a dict output of our DDeD using wml
slices one day. When is another question.
Thanks, Mt.
--
Quand on a du blé plein ses étables, on prend vite des réflexes de veau.
Faire l'aumone au bon misérable plutôt qu'de payer des impots. Distribuer de
jolis cartables et des stylos neufs au marmots, et traiter les profs
d'incapables en laissant l'école prendre l'eau.
-- Les malpolis
Reply to: