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Re: Where's Grub?

On Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 05:01:20AM -0400, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> The first thing you need is fully ensymboled binaries.  I am still
> upset that the Debian packages don't have symbols, and I really really
> want people to rethink this bug.  But given that, you just have to
> have ensymboled binaries.

Yes, I understand your concerns. However, if we would have unstripped
binaries by default, the distribution would blow up a lot. Note that we have
binaries for about 10 plattforms and 2200 packages. The distribution is
taking several gigabytes to mirror already, and the bandwidth is also a
concern. It's not good enough to strip the binaries at install time as a
user option, because I would still have to d/l it over my $$$ link.

Most people would not debug the software anyway. Under Linux, an strace is
often all you need.

We have debugging versions of the libraries. I would not object to have a
special hurd-dbg package, which contains the Hurd unstripped. In fact, I
already built such a thing once (it's 4.5 MB compressed), and it would be
easy to change the rules files to produce it. Would this be a compromise?
This would still leave the applications w/o symbols, though.

> Then I would run things in a sub hurd to examine the bug.  In that way
> your machine will not blow up, because what ever thing causes the bug
> will happen to the sub hurd, which will crash and burn, but not affect
> the top level Hurd.

I had troubles using a sub hurd when I tried it with older versions, but I
will try again. Things have changed.
> In that way you can see where things are stuck.  In such an
> environment it's usually pretty easy to find out what's blocked or
> crashing, and then to track things back to find out which call caused
> the problem.  Then you start your subhurd again, attach a debugger to
> the task that fails, and elicit the bug and watch it happen, and do
> debugging as you would in any other kind of program.

But wouldn't I need another terminal to attach a debugger from the parent
Hurd? How do I observer the sub Hurd while it is running? I only havea
single terminal, no network but PPP. Virtual Consoles could help :)

Maybe I am just missing something.


> > More info: After interrupting, I can't start any more programs, although the
> > shell still works. If I understood correctly, that's a problem with the exec
> > server...
> Or the filesystem, more commonly.

Yes, it's a bit flaky. Well may be the culprit.

Thanks for all the information,

"The purpose of Free Software is Free Software.
The End and the Means are the same."  -- Craig Sanders

Marcus Brinkmann <Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de>

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