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Re: debian-edu-doc: reworking content of binary packages

Hi Wolfgang,

Wolfgang Schweer schreef op di 01-09-2020 om 13:19 [+0200]:
> Hi Frans,
> To come to a conclusion for myself, I've taken a look at the Audacity 
> and Rosegarden programs (and at all three manuals).

I am impressed with your thorough analysis below. Moreover, I feel in
favour of the solutions you propose, and I understood also Holger does.

Nevertheless, I just have no idea whether, by acting like this, we will not
make too sudden a break with the past for the target audience of the
manuals and for those educational institutions that may rely on it. Let me
try to explain my concerns in this regard.
If I'm not mistaken the Audacity and Rosegarden manuals are primarily
targeted at classroom teachers, while the ITIL manual is primarily meant
for the school management, and the buster/bullseye manual being helpful in
the first place for the school IT responsible. I don't know if e.g. even
the very concise and outdated Audacity manual might be helpful for teachers
to get started with that program. I honestly have no idea. While the
program itself is indeed translated into the languages of the Debian Edu
founding father's countries, Norway and France, and many other languages,
there are on the contrary no translations at all of the very comprehensive
manual. The same applies to the Rosegarden manual, while this program even
lacks a Norwegian Bokmål translation, e.g. Won't people on the ground feel
themselves deprived of an, admittedly very imperfect, resource?
Given these doubts in me, let me just say that I stay behind your proposals
and that I hope that we will receive signals if it turns out that people on
the ground consider this a too drastic change.
I feel less insecure about treating the ITIL manual the same as you propose
to treat the Audacity and Rosegarden manuals, because for a long time the
ITIL manual has only been possibly meaningful to Norwegian schools in the
absence of an English version.

> Audacity:
> ---------
> The GUI has changed over the years and is nowadays translated into a lot 
> of languages (menu items, mouse over information), see: 
> https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/languages.html#lang
> The Audacity manual screenshots contain a lot of information, but don't 
> match the GUI anymore. It also doesn't make much sense if a translation 
> shows the screenshots in English. This is the case for all translations 
> with (fr) as the only exception.
> A lot of up-to-date information is available, e.g. see:
> https://manual.audacityteam.org
> My opinion: maybe useful in parts, but not what you would qualify as a 
> manual for users. Keep it on wiki.debian.org with a remark like 
> 'Outdated, but still useful in parts'. Drop it from weblate.

So, If I understand this correctly, this means no longer seeking new
translations and translation updates.

>  Ship 
> already existing translations in legacy packages.
> Rosegarden:
> -----------
> Different GUI compared to the one from years ago, translated into 21 
> languages (12 fully translated), see:
> https://salsa.debian.org/multimedia-team/rosegarden/-/tree/master/data/locale
> While the Rosegarden manual screenshots are available in {en,fr,nb}, 
> they are outdated as well. Further, installation instructions (QjackCtl, 
> Qsynth, soundfont) are from ancient times.
> A lot of up-to-date information is available, e.g. see:
> https://www.rosegardenmusic.com/tour/
> Hence the same suggestion as for the Audacity manual.

Agreed, against the background of the feelings of doubt I expressed above.

> -----
> The extremely outdated part about Coyote firewall has been excluded from 
> the AllInOne page recently, see:
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Documentation/ITIL/AllInOne?action=info
> More content could be excluded, e.g. these sections:
> <<Include(DebianEdu/Documentation/ITIL/Infrastructure)>>
> <<Include(DebianEdu/Documentation/ITIL/InfrastructureSetup)>>
> <<Include(DebianEdu/Documentation/ITIL/UsefulCommands)>>
> But I'm undecided if this is a good idea, maybe better keep it like it 
> is now and treat it like the Audacity and Rosegarden manuals.

Here, I would opt for the latter option.

> Wolfgang

Kind regards,
Frans Spiesschaert

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