On Friday 02 March 2007, Halvor Dahl wrote:
> cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote:
> > On Friday 02 March 2007, Halvor Dahl wrote:
> >> I agree. There is no need wasting space for iceweasel on the first CD
> >> because people will probably install Firefox from Mozilla anyway.
> >
> > that's like saying you won't use generic drugs only the brand name
> > equivalents. Even though the only difference (often up to and including
> > where they are manufactered) is the box they're wrapped in.
>
> You are completely missing the point.
No i'm not it's the exact same problem of paying more then something is
worth in order to get a simple brand name.
(giving up a core principle definately counts as paying)
> The battle is about getting schools to use open source software in the
> first place. That is their call and we have to convince them that the
> software is useful, user-friendly and that it will not break. Well-known
> brand names is extremely important when trying to establish that kind of
> confidence.
>
> >> The Debian camp could really need a basic course in commercial
> >> thinking when they believe they can afford to lose a brand name like
> >> Firefox.
Well here's some commercial thinking 101: focus on your strengths not your
weaknesses when pitching your product.
So get the conversion to go something like the following:
Q: What browser are you using?
A: We use premier standards-compliant browser that builds on the firefox
core with some improvents and that supports <long list of standards>.
Q: Ok
Instead of
Q: What browser are you using
A: Iceweasel
Q: Never heard of it
A: Whole explanation of the issue leading to the name change
(and yes, getting the freedom to be able to fix things directly qualifies as
an improvement. Among other things it allows us to do security support for
a stable release when Mozilla chooses to no longer support that version)
> > Debian really didn't have any choice in this case, Mozilla didn't grant
> > us the right to use the firefox name, and won't unless we give up the
> > right to fix things when they break. Since that's one of the core
> > principles layed out in the foundation documents of Debian (such as the
> > debian free software guidelines), there's nothing we can do about it.
>
> How about a more pragmatic approach to the issue? How about making
> exceptions to be able to use the brand name? How about negotiating
> even more trying to find a solution that is maybe not optimal for
> either party but good enough?
Principle:
5. A settled rule of action; a governing law of conduct; an
opinion or belief which exercises a directing influence on
the life and behavior; a rule (usually, a right rule) of
conduct consistently directing one's actions; as, a person
^^^^^^^^^^^^
of no principle.
[1913 Webster]
Setting aside a core principle just for convenience puts at risk the whole
foundation on which the project is build. It requires you to either be a
hyppocrite, or change your principles. I don't think either of those
options would be in the best (longterm) interest of the project.
> >> Maybe we should just give up the "out-of-the-box" idea and make
> >> Skolelinux just a very small core of services and supply a list of
> >> nice applications and how to install them.
> >
> > And maybe, whe should give up on skolelinux all to gether, and just use
> > MS all the way, afterall that's what the typical parent is using at
> > work, right?
>
> Why on earth should we do that?
I guess I should've put <sarcasm> markers around that, just to make to make
that clear.
--
Cheers, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis)
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