On 2020-01-03 at 08:50, Andrej Shadura wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 at 14:02, The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> > wrote: > >> On 2020-01-02 at 09:03, Sam Hartman wrote: >> >>> My understanding is that systemd's implementation of tmpfiles >>> and sysusers works even while systemd is not pid 1. Why do we >>> need multiple implementations for Debian ports where systemd >>> runs? >> >> There are those who don't run systemd-the-daemon even as non-PID-1; >> I'm one of them. >> >> In my case, this is partly due to half-remembered >> negative-impression behavior changes seen from even non-PID-1 >> systemd, back when I experimented with it around the time of the >> default transition - but I can't remember those changes clearly >> enough to specify, and it's possible that even if they did exist >> back then they might no longer be present today. (For what it's >> worth, my recollection is that they were related to logind.) > > I believe there’s significant misunderstanding here. > > Unless I’m mistaken, systemd-tmpfiles and systemd-sysusers not only > don’t require systemd to run as PID 1, but they don’t require > systemd to run at all. In fact, they don’t seem to require the > /bin/systemd binary to be installed. They do use libsystemd-shared.so > because they need e.g. bits of the string manipulation library, but > that’s it. I am not particularly surprised by this, and am pleased to learn that it is the case. However, as it remains the case that they are shipped in the same package as /bin/systemd, and as I gather (mostly from this thread, I think) that some of the ways they are expected to be invoked probably rely on having systemd-the-daemon running, this does not entirely obviate my concerns related to needing to have systemd-the-package's daemons present in order to gain access to these facilities. If these two programs were to be split out into one or more separate packages (which IMO would probably also be a good idea for some of the other binaries shipped in systemd-the-package, but that's another discussion), and those packages did not depend on the systemd package, that would greatly improve the situation from my perspective. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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