On 2018-08-19 09:53:36 +0200 (+0200), Bastian Blank wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 11:55:19PM +0200, Thomas Goirand wrote:
[...]
> > First, there's dozens of OpenStack public cloud out there, so
> > you're not locked-in with a single operator.
>
> There exists thousand variants how to setup an OpenStack instance.
> Just leave out some specific service and it's not longer
> compatible with your project. So you not just need to find an
> OpenStack operator, you need to find an operator who provides the
> correct set of services you need.
Any provider brandishing the OpenStack Powered Platform trademark is
required to pass a battery of tests which confirm that the minimum
expected featureset is present and functions as expected:
https://www.openstack.org/brand/interop/
The official SDK and unified command-line client are also intended
to maintain backward compatibility with pretty much any version of
official service APIs which have ever existed in the history of the
project, and cope fairly well with the various deployment
configurations which are found in the wild (I can confirm this, as I
help maintain a distributed application which simultaneously and
continuously interacts with OpenStack services operated by 10
different service providers around the World, which provides a fairly
representative sample size).
Believing what random people say about OpenStack is like believing
what random people say about Debian. I've heard that Debian's just a
bunch of pedantic wonks who care more about licensing technicalities
than whether their distribution carries working software, and that
they regularly introduce non-upstream security holes through naive
patching of code they don't comprehend. I don't *believe* those
things because I spend a lot of time in and around the Debian
community and I know better, but lots of people take this as gospel.
> > Then there's not a single contributor to the OpenStack source
> > code, the contributors are quite diverse.
>
> A friend of mine called OpenStack a dysfunctional open source
> project. Especially the number of different people giving the
> shots and running in different directions does not help. (No
> project in OpenStack looks alike. Just look at all the different
> variants for how to maintain the database schema.)
[...]
Pot calling the kettle black? Those who live in glass houses
shouldn't throw stones? As a *long time* participant in the Debian
community (it's been my primary distro choice for all my personal
systems since Hamm), I have a hard time believing you could
seriously make such assertions. How many different package
maintainers and maintainer teams does Debian have calling the shots
over their individual fiefdoms? Yet this diverse community of
participants collaborates effectively, often made stronger through
disagreement and dissent, to produce what I believe to be the best
GNU/Linux distribution ever. My attempts to help steer the OpenStack
community toward healthy collaboration draw much inspiration from
the sort of collaboration which I've seen go on in Debian over the
years.
> > Well, it's a question of view. To me, having Salsa to host some
> > of its data on Google is a kind of tacit endorsement. Even
> > worse, it gives the message that, from the viewpoint of the
> > whole Debian community, it's ok to host there. Clearly, I'm not
> > the only one bothered in this way.
>
> No, it's how the word is defined in the english language.
Like it or not, the software and services we choose set an example
for others to follow. I have the utmost respect and appreciation for
all the hard work which went into replacing Alioth (and maintaining
Alioth before that). As much as I'm not a fan of Gitlab's open-core
development model, I recognize that the decision as to what to use
was ultimately up to the people who were volunteering to do all that
work. Nevertheless, to a lot of other free and open software
communities who looked up to the Debian community's strong
commitment to software freedom, the choice to use Gitlab instead of
one of the freer alternatives out there *did* seem like a betrayal
of those ideals (choosing convenience over freedom).
So yes, regardless of whether you consider it to be a tacit
endorsement, there are a lot of people watching and they *will* draw
conclusions about Debian's stance on software freedom from the sorts
of software and services it chooses to deploy for its developer
community.
And apologies, the OpenStack subthread here got pretty off-topic. I
don't normally post about OpenStack on debian-devel (or any other
non-OpenStack mailing lists for that matter), but I felt like I
really did need to address a few of your points on the subject.
--
Jeremy Stanley
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