Re: init system agnosticism [WAS: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system]

[Vincent Danjean <vdanjean.ml@free.fr>]

  Hi,

  I do not have any strong position on this subject.

Le 13/04/2017 à 02:13, Russ Allbery a écrit :
> I guess I'm confused about what you think this email will accomplish.  I
> feel like it's just another round of being convinced that, since you
> dislike systemd, everyone else must also somehow dislike systemd too, deep
> down inside, and if you just find the right argument, all those people who
> think they like systemd will realize that they actually don't and will
> come help you build something else.

  For me, the first argument explain in the first mail is not this one.
systemd is not portable on lots of system (hurd, kFreeBSD, ...), upstream
systemd is not interested in making its code portable, nor to stabilize
its interfaces so that other system init can easily implement them, lots
of applications are now using libsystemd to get 'classical' information
(status, ...) because they do not want to have to deal with several init
system and porters of platforms not supported by systemd have a really hard
work to follow systemd developments and patch all things.

  For me, this seems a real issue (and, again, I do not know the good
way to deal with this).
  From your mail, you seems to deny this issue ("everybody can be pleased
with systemd" and/or "this is not a general problem, just a problem
from people that dislike systemd"). For what I see, it seems a problem
also for people that like systemd but cannot use it on their plate-form
(Hurd, ...)

  I'm persuaded that ignoring this issue will lead to an unmaintanable
Debian distribution on plateforms that do not support systemd in the
middle/long term. But, perhaps, it is what the project wants.
  Enrico is proposing something else. I'm not sure if his proposal is
good and doable (ie with enough support from various parties and
manpower).
  I'm not pleased at all with arguments to stop this discussion nor
with arguments that try to deny the issue. I do not know what can
really be done to solve the issue.

  Regards,
    Vincent