Re: Debian does not have customers
On 9/15/2016 10:19 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2016-09-15 at 22:03, Ben Finney wrote:
>
>> The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> writes:
>>
>>> On 2016-09-15 at 21:26, Wookey wrote:
>>>
>>>> I reckon a lot of us would be happier if you [Russ] (and Abou)
>>>> used the term 'users', rather than 'customers'. I know I think
>>>> that being a customer involves payment.
>>> That was exactly my point: that although many people (including
>>> me!) think that [the term “customer” entails payment from the
>>> customer], other people do not - and, IMO, refusing or otherwise
>>> failing to understand what they mean when they use the term that
>>> way is not helpful.
>> That's a point of disagreement, then. I think Russ's drawing
>> attention to the fact Debian does not have customers is helpful: it
>> clarifies the discussion and explicitly acknowledges a fact that may
>> have been ignored by the person using that term ambiguously.
>>
>> As Russ describes so eloquently, that ambiguity glosses an essential
>> distinction the Debian Project has from other superficially similar
>> entities people may be more familiar with.
>>
>> Ignoring that distinction is harmful to effective communication,
>> because it fosters an unachievable expectation. Effort to expose and
>> avoid that particular ambiguity is helpful because it dispels a false
>> expectation.
> I would agree with all of that.
>
> I simply maintain that to say that "we don't sell anything, therefore we
> don't have customers" (as is the original statement to which I
> responded) is to fail to effectively communicate, by failing to respond
> to the meaning of the term which the person who used it intended.
>
> That's not to say that we have to accept and adopt that intended
> meaning of that term; providing an explanation of why it is not suitable
> for Debian (perhaps by linking to an existing explanation, for which
> purpose Russ's own might be a candidate) could well be a more suitable
> option.
>
> To see people talking past each other because they're using different
> definitions of their words and aren't acknowledging that fact, however,
> is actively unpleasant for me. Russ _is_ acknowledging that fact, and
> may well be helping bring the difference into light for others; however,
> the original comment to which I responded did not seem to be doing so.
>
> (At this point, I don't think continuing this subthread any further is
> likely to be particularly helpful...)
I'll start off by saying I haven't read the whole thread and only
caught this because of the subject line change.
I'd have to ask how many of you actually have worked in large
enterprise environments? I've been working in both public and private
sector enterprise environments and the term "customer" is quite often
used to describe those whom we serve. Whether they are internal or
external customers and whether or not there is any payment involved. The
term merely means the consumer of the service we provide.
Having a long winded debate over the use of a term takes away from
the ability of actually accomplishing anything so it is better served to
move on and address the issue rather than be pedantic about definitions.
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