On 01/04/2016 11:44 AM, Marc Haber wrote: > On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 21:35:39 +0100, Christian Seiler > <christian@iwakd.de> wrote: >> So that was the state in February of 2011, when the warning was added >> to systemd and the systemd developers recommended the use of the >> initrd: mounting /usr from a running system is broken. Either it is >> already completely broken in some cases - and for all other cases where >> it currently works it is broken maintenance-wise. > > Declaring something that was the normal use case five years ago as > broken is a blatant sign of disrespect for users. Ok, so when Wheezy came around, 5 years before that a normal use case for init scripts was to have a fixed start/stop priority that was used when calling update-rc.d - and in Wheezy (this was pre-systemd!) the update-rc.d implementation completely ignores the start/stop priorities and says it only does dependency-based boot now (it shows a warning if priorities are still specified). Is that also a blatant sign of disrespect for users? With your argumentation you could argue that ANY change is a blatant disrespect for users. I'm really curious: what's your solution? I've provided lots of arguments (which you completely ignored in my previous email) why the current state of things is broken. You can say "this sucks", but how does that help? Diagnosis: mounting /usr from / doesn't work properly - things constantly break and the past has shown that it is not possible to sanely (!) maintain that setup. You might not like that diagnosis, just as you'd probably not like a diagnosis of appendicitis (because then you'd need an operation), but the diagnosis hold regardless. Now what do do about it? You seem to be suggesting that people should try to maintain the current state of affairs regardless. There's ample evidence that that simply won't work. Any other ideas? Suggestion by other people: ok, so we still want to support a separate /usr partition, so what do we do now? Oh yes, we just mount it already in the initrd, because that already has support for mounting filesystems (such as the root filesystem). Now people can still have their separate partitions but we don't have to support the use case of mounting /usr from / anymore. Plus: if we do that, we get a exciting possibilities, because we can just put everything in /usr, which is what the UsrMerge is all about, so we can actually make lemonade from those lemons. Response: well, in some cases a full-blown initrd is not an option. I respond in this thread with providing a 300 LoC PoC for a minimalistic initrd that's *reall* small. I ask people who have been complaining here whether this would address their concerns. What do I get? Silence. The only responses I got are from people who aren't affected by this. So really, what would you suggest? How would you solve this issue? I have yet to read anything from the nay-sayers in this thread that is both constructive AND addresses the problems identified. Regards, Christian
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