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Re: Being part of a community and behaving

Patrick Ouellette <pouelle@debian.org> writes:

> By making it the new default, and causing apt-get dist-upgrade to
> install systemd (which is what happened to one of my systems) in place
> of sysvinit we most certainly are.

The point that I'm making is that those are two separate things.  Yes,
both of those happened for jessie, but the only one the *project* decided
(via the TC) was the first one.  The second was decided by some of the
maintenance teams involved, other people disagree, there's a big
discussion about that at present, and I don't think the state for the
release is settled at this point.

> By not having a meta-package "init-system" provided by an actual
> package,


Package: init
Source: init-system-helpers
Version: 1.21
Essential: yes
Installed-Size: 29
Maintainer: pkg-systemd-maintainers <pkg-systemd-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org>
Architecture: amd64
Pre-Depends: systemd-sysv | sysvinit-core | upstart
Description-en: System-V-like init utilities - metapackage
 This package is an essential metapackage which allows you to select from
 three available init systems in Debian (systemd, sysvinit, upstart) while
 ensuring that one of these is available on the system at all times.
Description-md5: e52554c23609041bfbca72fe27a132f9
Section: metapackages
Priority: required
Filename: pool/main/i/init-system-helpers/init_1.21_amd64.deb
Size: 4634
MD5sum: a3844c4fe9eef9e8976803cebc33ab68
SHA1: caad9e2284c37cd25ef7ca58e23d243a37d5cc24
SHA256: ff7cd1f757d5ab178c666892caa05559f8dce2817528ab677fe778655f70e11d

I don't think the nature of the problem is quite what you think it is.

> For the record, I really don't care about the init system per-say.  I am
> more annoyed with the systemd insistence on logging to binary files than
> anything.  Log files should be plain text.

I'm sorry that you've been misled about this.  systemd logs as plain text
by default in Debian.  In fact, the plain text logs are much better than
what we get from sysvinit, since they include stdout and stderr of

That plain-text logging was replaced with binary logging is another piece
of inaccurate FUD that's been going around.  At least on debian-user, this
information is being spread intentionally by trolls who know that it's a
lie, just to make people angry unnecessarily.

Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org)               <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

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