Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?

[Cameron Norman <camerontnorman@gmail.com>]

El mié, 3 de sep 2014 a las 4:07 , Marco d'Itri <md@linux.it> escribió:

On Sep 03, Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> wrote:

> https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrc+sysvinit-core+systemd-shim&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=2014-01-01&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1 Please stop using graphs showing how various teams have forced systemd onto users' systems as if it is somehow a democratic endorsement of the outcome.

I am not sure about how the concept of democracy applies to this, but the graph clearly shows that nobody is being forced to do anything and indeed about 4000 users choose to install systemd-shim and to not use systemd.

Ok, let me explain Steve's POV. Many packages depended on libpam-systemd before systemd-shim was ever in the archive, leading to systemd-sysv being installed by a normal dist-upgrade on Sid (and, although I am not sure, testing). The alternative was often to have GNOME or Network Manager removed, two very popular packages (and the latter quite important). Even after systemd-shim was uploaded to the archive (still at logind v204 here), libpam-systemd depended on "systemd-sysv | systemd-shim". This meant that users' systems would switch init systems on a normal dist-upgrade *unless* they manually intervened and knew which package they had to install to avoid that. Finally, systemd v208 was uploaded to unstable with an unconditional dependency on systemd-sysv. All of these actions led to users experiencing a change of init system before they had taken action to change init systems, which means that the graphs are not reliable in claiming that the majority of users wanted systemd as their init system.

I can not speak for Steve, but I recognize that some or all of those actions above were called for. The final one especially (systemd v208 upload), since their was ample warning and communication (something like one or two months I think), the move was a long time coming, and systemd was chosen as the default init system by then (not true for the other two actions).

I hope that helps you understand how the graph does not depict how many users elected to use systemd as their init system.

Best regards,

--

Cameron Norman