Re: /bin/sh
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:36:53AM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 01:10:06PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 12:21:33PM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 10:03:34AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
> > > > I think that, to convince people that flexibility won't cause stability
> > > > and complexity problems, you're going to need to present a complete and
> > > > fairly bulletproof implementation plan. Given how difficult the bash to
> > > > dash transition was, I think it's going to have a fairly high bar to meet.
>
> > > dash still has two outstanding multiply-release-ignored grave bugs as a
> > > result of the last transition. A minimum demonstration of competence on the
> > > part of anyone proposing to change the shell again is to fix those RC bugs
> > > without introducing new ones.
>
> > The system-shell idea fixes axactly those two bugs:
>
> > # dash fails to upgrade if /bin/sh is locally diverted
> > # dash upgrade breaks mksh-as-/bin/sh
>
> It does so in a way that there is not a consensus that we should adopt.
>
> I'm saying you need to demonstrate that you can fix these bugs in such a way
> that dash *exclusively* owns /bin/sh; and once this has been demonstrated,
> which can only be done conclusively by an upload to unstable that puts the
> solution in contact with real-world users, we can consider adopting a more
> complicated scheme that adds the flexibility being discussed.
Sorry, but that is just stupid. You want others to do implement your
solution that has no consensus too and is a regression from past stable
releases to demonstrate that they are capable to implementing the
actual solution that then restores the past behaviour?
Sorry, but that is not the only way to show competence and you don't
demonstrate a potentially desasterous solution in unstable. You proove
its effectiveness in experimental first. And you proove your
competence to do A by doing A and not by doing B.
Note: Dash currently *exclusively* owns /bin/sh. Done. Prooven. Even
made it into a stable release already. Maybe you aren't as competent
in this matter as you thought yourself?
The remaining problem is that dash also diverts /bin/sh.
MfG
Goswin
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