Re: /bin/sh (was Re: jessie release goals)
Le samedi 11 mai 2013 à 20:44 +0100, Roger Leigh a écrit :
> I can't agree with having no choice with regard to init. We aren't
> all using GNOME, and Debian is used in an extremely diverse set of
> fields for a multitude of different purposes. No one init is
> appropriate for all of these applications. systemd fails on safety
> grounds alone for a good number of uses. That much complexity is
> an unacceptable risk for PID1 failure.
This is utter bullshit and you should already know it. Systemd is much
more reliable as a whole than any other implementation. I have yet to
see a use case where it is not better.
> We all saw where GNOME took use with their lack of choice: an
> unusable trainwreck.
This is your opinion. There are other users who happen to value features
over configurability. Given that iOS and Android sell by millions every
week, maybe there are quite a lot of them.
> It's a disgrace that this shipped as the
> default desktop for wheezy, it really is. Quite how that
> happened I have no idea. I absolutely don't want to see a
> repeat of that horror with the basic operation of our system.
We have only had one init system since the first Debian release. Why do
we suddenly need more than one? What does make choice important now,
that was not relevant before?
> The fact that GNOME is going to *require* systemd is really
> just yet another reflection upon the stupidity of tight-coupling
> and what happens when you start trying to control others.
Please go implement a decent user tracking system with the same APIs
(which are not tightened to systemd at all), and you’ll see GNOME has no
dependency on systemd at all.
Oh wait… this is already being worked on. By Ubuntu.
But regardless, we don’t need more than one init system. We just need a
good one. This is completely unrelated to GNOME. The bunch of idiots who
try to pin it down on GNOME, Fedora or the Illuminati look like just
another group of conspiracy theories lunatics.
> What
> are they, Microsoft or something? It's a bad attitude I never
> thought I'd see in the free software world--up until now we took
> great pains to be interoperable with each others rather than
> forcing the rest of the world to conform to our worldview. One
> desktop environment, and an awful one at that, dictating the
> init system we use is a complete farce.
The complete farce is having project members saying that a desktop
environment is “dictating the init system”.
GNOME depends on a working glibc, too. Does it dictate the C library? It
only runs on X. Does it dictate the windowing system?
Such an amount of stubborn, willing ignorance dismisses anything else
you might have to say on this topic.
> Debian is a lot bigger
> than GNOME, and if we have to, I'd vote for junking it entirely.
Yeah sure, whatever floats your boat. Apparently it floats a lot on hate
and not much on rational reasoning.
kthxbye,
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
`-
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