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Re: /bin/sh (was Re: jessie release goals)

On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 08:52:29PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Being able to choose between two entirely different desktop
> environments, with different user experiences, is a good thing.
> Being able to choose between two /bin/sh shells or two /sbin/init
> implementations is not.

The shell I can agree with.  It is required to provide a POSIX shell,
so as long as it is fully functional and performs well, just
picking one and sticking with it is absolutely fine.

I can't agree with having no choice with regard to init.  We aren't
all using GNOME, and Debian is used in an extremely diverse set of
fields for a multitude of different purposes.  No one init is
appropriate for all of these applications.  systemd fails on safety
grounds alone for a good number of uses.  That much complexity is
an unacceptable risk for PID1 failure.

We all saw where GNOME took use with their lack of choice: an
unusable trainwreck.  It's a disgrace that this shipped as the
default desktop for wheezy, it really is.  Quite how that
happened I have no idea.  I absolutely don't want to see a
repeat of that horror with the basic operation of our system.
The fact that GNOME is going to *require* systemd is really
just yet another reflection upon the stupidity of tight-coupling
and what happens when you start trying to control others.  What
are they, Microsoft or something?  It's a bad attitude I never
thought I'd see in the free software world--up until now we took
great pains to be interoperable with each others rather than
forcing the rest of the world to conform to our worldview.  One
desktop environment, and an awful one at that, dictating the
init system we use is a complete farce.  Debian is a lot bigger
than GNOME, and if we have to, I'd vote for junking it entirely.

  .''`.  Roger Leigh
 : :' :  Debian GNU/Linux    http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/
 `. `'   schroot and sbuild  http://alioth.debian.org/projects/buildd-tools
   `-    GPG Public Key      F33D 281D 470A B443 6756 147C 07B3 C8BC 4083 E800

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