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Re: MATE Desktop Environment in Debian

On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 22:48:36 +0200
Josselin Mouette <joss@debian.org> wrote:

> Le dimanche 22 juillet 2012 à 16:09 +0100, Neil Williams a écrit : 
> > I disagree. I have a number of upstream projects which started with
> > early versions of GTK2 which I ported to more recent versions and in
> > which I then implemented support for the DISABLE_DEPRECATED macros of
> > glib2.0 and gtk+2.0 such that the current versions of these packages in
> > unstable build fine against the current gtk+-2.0 with
> > DISABLE_DEPRECATED set - yet none of these will build against gtk+3.0.
> > 
> > Some of my upstreams would have to be complete rewrites to port to
> > gtk3, at which point I start considering if it would be easier to
> > rewrite for something other than gtk or abandon the upstream.
> Just because an application doesn’t build doesn’t mean you have to
> completely rewrite it.

(I wouldn't have put it that way if it was a small fix.)
> http://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/ch24s02.html

OK, well I'll have another look at the issues after Wheezy.
> > Gtk2 was a step forward from gtk1. Gtk3 is a failure IMHO. Unless third
> > party apps buy into the entire shell monoculture (via a rewrite), gtk3
> > makes it all but impossible to migrate. Gtk3 is an aggressive move to
> > strip out apps which don't fit the GNOME3 model, a model which I find
> > abhorrent and completely unsuited to how I want my projects to behave.
> I have no idea where you got this bullshit from.

Bitter experience. My main problem is that I don't want to follow the
direction set out by GNOME3 with the shell and lack of usable panels,
I just want to use GTK without GNOME. In the latter days of GTK2, this
seemed to be the way that things were going but I'm no longer convinced
that GTK developers care about upstreams who are not signed-up to GNOME.

The one upstream which does compile, doesn't run - despite deprecated
functions being removed.

> The changes between GTK
> 2.x to 3.x are minor and imply in no way a change in a “model” you
> haven’t defined anyway (object model? widget model? event model? none of
> them have changed).

The "model" is the redesign of the GNOME3 shell / UI. It's not so much
about a source code model, it's how the code gets translated into a UI
which looks nothing like what I wanted to create and behaves like a
GNOME app even when used in XFCE.

However, I will revisit all this after Wheezy - there's no point
discussing this ad infinitum at this stage. I just wanted to note that
the port is not necessarily as simple as originally outlined.

Let's leave it at that until after Wheezy.


Neil Williams

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