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Re: Recommends for metapackages

Dnia 2012-07-12, czw o godzinie 10:39 +0200, Gergely Nagy pisze:
> Noel David Torres Taño <envite@rolamasao.org> writes:
> >> Yet, we try to not diverge much from upstream, and maintain a good
> >> relationship with them. If they consider it core, so can we. Those who
> >> want to hand-pick parts of a meta package, can do so, we do not forbid.
> >
> > If we want to be user friendly, it is not a matter of "we do not forbid", it 
> > is a matter of "we make easy". Besides, low-level users will install 
> > Recommends by default, so they will get the whole box anyway. But medium or 
> > high level users may probably want N-M not to mess their network EVEN if they 
> > want the whole gnome desktop set.
> >> 
> >> I do not see the problem: those who want the full platform, can get it
> >> easily. Those who don't, and want to exclude some, they can do so easily
> >> too. A bit more work, but hey, if you're going to cherry pick, that will
> >> always involve more work.
> >> 
> >> The amount of extra work necessary is minimal though.
> >
> > Not so minimal if you want your gnome set to be up to date, including new 
> > applications being installed.
> It is very minimal. 5 minutes of work. Been there, done that, posted the
> bulk of the solution, and a general outline of the rest of it to this
> list, in this very thread, multiple times.
> Please take some time to read it. But alas, I'll make it easy for you:
> If you want to install a meta-package, but without one of its
> dependencies, and want to keep up to date with it too, so you get all
> the new stuff added to it, and you also want to be able to remove the
> whole thing with one swift sweep, here's what you do:
> - Grab the control file of the meta-package
>   (~1 line in shell, use grep-aptavail)
> - Filter out unwanted packages from depends
>   (~5-6 lines in shell)
> - Create a local package, under a different name, with the updated
>   information
>   (~10-20 lines, use equivs)
> === 5 minutes so far ===
> - Push it into a local repository
>   (~2-3 lines, use whatever, reprepro, mini-dinstall, or cat <<EOF)
> - Put the local repo in sources.list
> - apt-get update & install your shiny new meta-package
> - Hook all that into Apt::Update::Post-invoke
> That's it. The whole thing is under a hundred lines, and easily doable
> within half an hour (for the record, I implemented all of the above this
> morning in 17 minutes while still half asleep).

At first I thought it was a joke. But no, you really suggest that
everyone who wants to have up-to-date desktop environment
but without few packages (e.g. N-M or GDM) needs to create own package,
own local repository, and looks into it every time there is upgrade
to keep it current? And this is supposed to be simple?

I had phase of wanting to have under my control; heck, I even
was using Linux From Scratch, to which I was writing scripts to keep
it as up-to-date as possible. But later I become lazy and started to
think that there is better use for my time. After some time I found
Debian and liked idea of using other people's work and not having to
create my own distribution. After more time I started packaging
some software I am using so other people does not need to waste their
time building their own packages but may use my work and just do
# apt-get install python-pyopenl

Do you really think that forcing many people to maintain their
own repositories and metapackages is better  than just moving
e.g. N-M or GDM3 from Depends to Recommends?
Think about all those hours wasted, times however many people who
want to customise their desktops.


Tomasz Rybak <tomasz.rybak@post.pl> GPG/PGP key ID: 2AD5 9860
Fingerprint A481 824E 7DD3 9C0E C40A  488E C654 FB33 2AD5 9860

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